Brown's clutch rebuild thread

[The Mad Hat Man]

the bushes they use run ok dry in fact most are running now with no ill effect,i can assume you have little experience

i have enough experience, but more importantly I know how they are designed to work. Without oil the bearing will fail sooner. Why do you think the tradename is "oilite" ffs?

read this and learn something.

 

[jamesmartin]

i have enough experience, but more importantly I know how they are designed to work. Without oil the will fail sooner. Why do you think the tradename is "oilite" ffs?

read this and learn something.

yes weve all done that 30 or more years ago, nowadays and for quite awhile any lube if needed is already added you fit dry,youve not enough experience of what is necessary or not ,you learn by actually doing , stripping and rebuilding large numbers,

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

yes weve all done that 30 or more years ago, nowadays and for quite awhile any lube if needed is already added you fit dry,youve not enough experience of what is necessary or not ,you learn by actually doing , stripping and rebuilding large numbers,

The mechanical design is exactly the same. Yes , they are preloaded during manufacturing process, but it never harms to reload with Sae30 oil prior to fit. Carry on with your delusions James. You are obviously not a Mechanical Engineer, just a grease monkey.

 

[jamesmartin]

The mechanical design is exactly the same. Yes , they are preloaded during manufacturing process, but it never harms to reload with Sae30 oil prior to fit. Carry on with your delusions James. You are obviously not a Mechanical Engineer, just a grease monkey.

its not delusion its experience, whatever you call me i have it you dont, youve never observed any results i have daily

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

its not delusion its experience, whatever you call me i have it you dont, youve never observed any results i have daily

you dont know my engineering experience or qualifications. you keep crowing about yours.

Enuff of your crap - a good quality rum calls. I'm out

 

[jamesmartin]

you dont know my engineering experience or qualifications. you keep crowing about yours.

Enuff of your crap - a good quality rum calls. I'm out

im talking about experience ,not your qualifications ,spigot bushes are some thing i see very regularly,when it comes to things you have significant experience in ill listen without calling you

 

[Al2O3]

My only concern is that I might run out of Loc-Tite over Christmas.

Excellent progress on the side of that road that, matey. Crackin job!
It probably won't get to you any faster than you can get it from Halfrauds, or somewhere like that. But I've got threadloc I can put in the post for you. Just need to PM me and I'll post it tomorrow. I do live in the middle of nowhere though, so post me be a bit slow this time of year

 

[Brown]

Phew. I never realised the question of whether to oil your bush or not would be so contentious. Steady on gentlemen!

Excellent progress on the side of that road that, matey. Crackin job!
It probably won't get to you any faster than you can get it from Halfrauds, or somewhere like that. But I've got threadloc I can put in the post for you. Just need to PM me and I'll post it tomorrow. I do live in the middle of nowhere though, so post me be a bit slow this time of year

Once again, very kind. However, Amazon has come to the rescue, and has promised me a pot of Loc-Tite tomorrow, i.e. the 24th. I've been disappointed with the selection of Loc-Tite products at Halfords near me. I'd be delighted to get a Christmas present from you of course, but at this point Royal Mail wouldn't come 'til the later half of next week and I would hope to have got most of my reassembling done by then.

 

[jamesmartin]

it isnt really

 

[Al2O3]

Once again, very kind. However, Amazon has come to the rescue, and has promised me a pot of Loc-Tite tomorrow, i.e. the 24th. I've been disappointed with the selection of Loc-Tite products at Halfords near me. I'd be delighted to get a Christmas present from you of course, but at this point Royal Mail wouldn't come 'til the later half of next week and I would hope to have got most of my reassembling done by then.

Amazon Prime I take it? I got slightly irritated by the Amazon Prime concept yesterday. Logged in to Amazon, which I rarely do cos the Mrs spends most of our money, and noticed it cos £79 for Prime. Ok...........but now you often have to add Prime things together before they will deliver. So, now they are having you at both ends of the deal. It's good to get it on Christmas eve though.....

 

[Brown]

I've been out and done a bit more today. Let's disconnect everything so as to be able to work on the starter:

Let's get the air filter box and air pipes out of the way:

As the mating face of the bellhousing and block is a long way forward of the bulkhead, the only way to get at the bolts is via the engine bay. What a lot of dismantling! On the other side I've taken off the starter, the air hose and the crank position sensor.

Clutch being disconnected:

Now let's see if we can get the gearbox off the engine. My collection of bolts is growing:

The only ones that gave trouble were the top ones at the back of the engine bay, where of course there is no room for an impact wrench. As they're the sort where the head is really small in relation to the size of the bolt I was a little apprehensive in case they rounded off completely. No room to hammer an Irwin Bolt-Grip on either! Fortunately I cracked them by turning them clockwise a fraction. The gearbox and engine were carefully levered apart with screwdrivers. A bit of oil ran out. Oh no!

Fortunately the gearbox seal and the crank seal are OK and look dry. I think the juice is just what's leaked in from fuel pressure regulator leaks and leaky rocker cover gaskets. The back of the block loos fairly clean. Here's a first look at the gearbox side:

See what I mean about there not being any oil coming out of the seal? The bearing didn't feel too bad, but I put the new one on anyway. The centre pivot looked good - hardly any wear - and the same was true of the bit where the push rod goes. I took the fork off and had a look. Their little clips are in good condition and still secure the various components together so that was all reassembled. Doesn't look like there's any danger of me dropping the push rod down inside the bellhousing when I put the slave cylinder back on.

Here's the friction plate and pressure mechanism:

The friction material is a bit thin, but we're not down to the metal yet. There's a bit of wear on the fingers, where the clutch release bearing pushes up against them. The real culprit seems to have been the flywheel itself:

The two components are really loose and wobbly in relation to each other. They feel like they're about to come apart. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the source of the noise I was getting when the clutch was depressed. With the clutch up the springs hold everything together in a solid mass, but when the pedal is down the various bits and pieces can rattle around and thrum and hum and drone to their heart's content. Anyway, the new one is a lot tighter so should be a good investment.

In other news, I've got the old bush out. Of course, it wouldn't come with the hydraulic method. Each time it felt like I was making progress it was merely grease being forced out round the sides of my drift. So I bored it out instead. New one tapped in. It fits the gearbox input shaft when it is lose, but it might have compressed a bit on insertion. The new dual mass flywheel wouldn't go on. The hole in the middle was too small for the boss on the flywheel. I did a bit of fettling with emery paper, and put two lengths of threaded rod in the holes in the end of the crankshaft and used nuts to draw it on. It's certainly an interference fit! I hope it doesn't need to come off anytime soon. New bolts anointed with Loc-Tite and torqued up nice and tight and then some. New clutch disk on, and centred with the centring tool, and cover plate bolted up. By that time the light was going so I came in for a cup of coffee and slice of chocolate yule log. When it gets light again I shall offer up the bellhousing and see if it will go back together. I've got a little scissor lift style transmission jack which seems to have worked quite well. I borrowed it off a man at work. It looked pristine when I brought it home but it's been baptised with MTF94 and EP 90 so I hope he doesn't mind.

 

[Brown]

How about that for service? Loc-Tite delivered on Christmas eve at 8.00.

The true spirit of Christmas!

 

[Retroanaconda]

A fine way to spend Christmas Eve for sure

Looks like there’s been a lack of grease on the splines between the friction plate and the gearbox input shaft. Make sure it gets some when it goes back together! Hope the splines aren’t worn.

 

[Brown]

Most of that gingery dust seems to have come out of the dual mass flywheel. It sprinkles a trail as I carry it around. It seems to have deteriorated quite a bit over the last 11 years. The gearbox shaft splines seem OK and should be alright for another 100,000 miles. Today I've offered up the gearbox and bolted it on slowly, first with bits of threaded rod in the holes, then with long bolts, then with bolts packed with washers, then at last with the original bolts. It was a slow process, as I was trying to tighten it on evenly so as to get the gearbox shaft to go in its hole in the end of the crankshaft. Working from the top, then going underneath, then round the sides, then on top again, a few turns on each bolt. It seems to have worked because it went in smoothly. I could feel the bolts doing some work as they squeezed it together, but didn't meet any resistance. The gearbox turns freely when in neutral and resists when in gear, which is a good sign. I put the transfer box back on, whilst wasting time looking for the mounting blocks and bolts. At that point I ran out of light and it started raining. Not many photos from today's endeavours but here's a blurry picture of the gearbox on its scissor lift being wheeled towards the engine:

Makes quite a handy little trolley to carry gearboxes around on too.

 

[jamesmartin]

personally i prefer the box to push up flush by hand before tightening bolts, how high the lift raise looks a natty tool

 

[Brown]

personally i prefer the box to push up flush by hand before tightening bolts, how high the lift raise looks a natty tool

Yes, I'm pretty sure I didn't feel any resistance. In fact, as I was bolting it up, on a couple of occasions I gave it a shove from behind and it pushed forward the equivalent of a couple of turns on the bolts. So i don't think there was any binding from misaligned components. The reason I screwed it on like this is so I could keep the gap even all the way around as it closed up, so the input shaft would hit the holes in the friction plate and crankshaft. The scissor lift trolley goes up to about 2ft, which is enough to get the boxes lined up. Some transmission jacks have screws on to adjust the angle which this doesn't have, unfortunately.

Off out in a minute to put a bit more together. Clutch cylinders on, top up and bleed, overdrive on, then I'll start it up and see if it will change gear.

 

[Al2O3]

Given your on the roadside with an improvised gearbox lift, I think that's very impressive work.
I hope the Td5 system is easier to bleed than the 300.
Dual mass flywheel went in my last Mondeo. What a pain standing still on tick over. Good luck with the test drive.

 

[Brown]

A day putting things back together. Overdrive back on:

Here's the new clutch master cylinder gleaming in the winter sun:

And here's that scissor lift fully extended seeing as people were interested in it:

Got all that together. Bled with my pressure bleeder which I'm really glad of because the pipe goes up higher than the level of the cylinder. I've got the starter back on, got the air intake pipes back on, crank position sensor back on and breathers back on plus a few pipes and wires connected up. Bit slow today because the bolts to hold the master cylinder on are not exactly accessible, plus a few things needed re-tapping, so I had to keep going inside looking for 8mm taps, and the oil can.

Yes, I wonder whether the Mondeo and the Land Rover share these components. Looking for stuff online I see some of the components are listed as being for the Mondeo too.

 

[Al2O3]

Got all that together. Bled with my pressure bleeder which I'm really glad of because the pipe goes up higher than the level of the cylinder.

Yes, I wonder whether the Mondeo and the Land Rover share these components. Looking for stuff online I see some of the components are listed as being for the Mondeo too.

The 300 is the same. Bloody pipe loop goes higher than the master cylinder. What a pain.

Interesting thought about the Mondeo clutch. My previous Mondy was 2007. I wonder if Ford used that era clutch in the Defender post 2000?

Did you get a test drive in today?

 

[Brown]

I haven't driven it yet. Few more things to connect, oil to put in the gearboxes and then I shall give it a spin.