Broken Timing Belt

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very useful although not used as much as flossie, i bought this cheap off ebay just for this job, the idea is to get corrcect TDC

so set to zero just before tdc, turn crank then reading will change and then go back to zero, mark off on flywheel or pully at each zero and then in the middle is TDC, the same with MAx EP on valve as you get mid point on top of cam

this method is recommended in manuals

1723646107029.jpeg
 
steve2286w said:
very useful although not used as much as flossie, i bought this cheap off ebay just for this job, the idea is to get corrcect TDC

so set to zero just before tdc, turn crank then reading will change and then go back to zero, mark off on flywheel or pully at each zero and then in the middle is TDC, the same with MAx EP on valve as you get mid point on top of cam

this method is recommended in manuals

View attachment 323810
Click to expand...
 
Ok got that, accuracy is good.....however when I dismantled the engine TDC was already marked in white paint in the housing. If I do it 'by eye' it lines up every time to +/- 0.5mm so I think I have it damn close.

It may come in handy for finding EP on number 1 valve??

I will order one.

Thanks guys
 
steve2286w said:
also gives to change to check TDC on piston top with DTI and make additional markings if reqd
Click to expand...
I had to do that the other day on a truck, bloody thing wont run right, turns out flywheel timing mark is wrong!
Bloody hard work on my own, in the front under the gbox repeat many many times as I thought I was going mad.

Though it has to be said the dti on piston at tdc is not accurate enough, you need to rotate the crank until the piston is in position x (I counted ten teeth on the ring gear) with dti showing whatever figure you fancy, then rotate crank the other way until dti shows the same figure again, dead between these two points is true tdc.

Screenshot 2024-08-14 at 17.29.30.png
 
109Santana said:
Hi,
Everything about this engine is exactly as the manual and pictures you show.
I attempted the timing for a later engine with the lock pin on the flywheel mark (it is about 1.5 inches from the window and is just past TDC cylinder 1.)
When the camshaft dot is lined up with its arrow valve 1 is fully open. If I lock the flywheel and then put the belt on it gets stuck somehow....I'm thinking that maybe the valve clearances are somehow incorrect ??

I have now removed the cylinder head completely to verify everything is OK.
The head looks fine with no evidence of serious piston contact, though there was a slight mark on piston2 where valve 3 had possibly impacted it, though it was very slight and only visible because I was looking for any signs!.
I checked the camshaft rotation and movement of the pushrod and all seems OK to me (I'm not fully up on engines but there is nothing broken so I'm assuming it is correct.)

One thing I have not been able to do was line up the arrow and yhe punch mark on the crank shaft and still use the pin!! What I'm saying is I have not tried it with 3 dots lined up with 3 arrows (the crank dot is nowhere near TDC or EP) not sure if this makes a difference- I will put the head back on and redo the valve clearances before I try again.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Did you check the pre combustion chambers were tight in the head?
 
lynall said:
I had to do that the other day on a truck, bloody thing wont run right, turns out flywheel timing mark is wrong!
Bloody hard work on my own, in the front under the gbox repeat many many times as I thought I was going mad.

Though it has to be said the dti on piston at tdc is not accurate enough, you need to rotate the crank until the piston is in position x (I counted ten teeth on the ring gear) with dti showing whatever figure you fancy, then rotate crank the other way until dti shows the same figure again, dead between these two points is true tdc.

View attachment 323817
Click to expand...
Hi,

Although I agree with you that accuracy is the key.....When I dismantled the engine it was running and the marks all lined up so as I haven't changed anything the timing mark cannot be wrong...it lines up perfectly every time. I really doubt checking with dti will show much (if any) of an error.
My main priority will be getting the head back on and the rocker assembly with new pushrods then setting the valve clearances so that everything should (fingers crossed) rotate without clashing!!
As I still cannot definitively identify the age/type of this engine (nor indeed where it came from) I do not know which timing method I will use!!
If I line up all three dots with the arrows TDC or EP become irrelevant as they are nowhere near the TDC or EP marks! My crank punch mark is around half a rotation from the TDC (which the arrow lines up with the collet).

A few days to try and research the engine number before my parts come.......

I have set the pump with the special tool so that punch mark should be good
 
lynall said:
I had to do that the other day on a truck, bloody thing wont run right, turns out flywheel timing mark is wrong!
Bloody hard work on my own, in the front under the gbox repeat many many times as I thought I was going mad.

Though it has to be said the dti on piston at tdc is not accurate enough, you need to rotate the crank until the piston is in position x (I counted ten teeth on the ring gear) with dti showing whatever figure you fancy, then rotate crank the other way until dti shows the same figure again, dead between these two points is true tdc.

View attachment 323817
Click to expand...
dats lot of gears:eek:
 
if your belt snapped originally then the gear wheels would have moved out of sync
you see the EP exhaust peak is 109 deg before top dead centre
so with belt off and all pistons in mid point in cylinder you should be able to set pump and cam at exhaust peak measured with dti then get crank at 109deg BTDC (online there are printed 360deg protractors you can print off and stick to crank) to check markings then this should align with the dot punch on crank wheel
then you can put belt on

mine had a slot in flywheel that did not align with locking pin when accurate EP marks and TDC were found
if your flywheel a bit mucky its easy to m8iss the mark or stampings

are you rotating engine in correct direction (clockwise)



1723659406377.png
 
steve2286w said:
if your belt snapped originally then the gear wheels would have moved out of sync
you see the EP exhaust peak is 109 deg before top dead centre
so with belt off and all pistons in mid point in cylinder you should be able to set pump and cam at exhaust peak measured with dti then get crank at 109deg BTDC (online there are printed 360deg protractors you can print off and stick to crank) to check markings then this should align with the dot punch on crank wheel
then you can put belt on

mine had a slot in flywheel that did not align with locking pin when accurate EP marks and TDC were found
if your flywheel a bit mucky its easy to m8iss the mark or stampings

are you rotating engine in correct direction (clockwise)



View attachment 323821
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks, will have a look when head is back together.
Flywheel is pristine (only the slot and no writing etc.) as I reconditioned most of the engine last year before putting it back in the vehicle.
Yes, only rotating clockwise and by hand.

Cheers,
 
lynall said:
Actually a doddle as you just line up all the marks on the gears, I had to strip it down as have a fuelling issue and was sure I had got the timing wrong a few weeks back, I was a bit annoyed when all my bit was okay, as I still have no idea what is causing the issue!
Click to expand...
Ok....I'm hoping it's a doddle as since starting this thread my confusion levels have hit the roof! If I line up the crank with the fot/arrow the cylinders are all about half way. I set the pump with the 'special tool and lined it up and hopefully I can line up the camshaft dot with the arrow. All I have to do then is put the head back on and set the tappets.
All this talk in one breath of TDC and then EP and DTI just make it complicated if its a simple as lining up 3 dotd with 3 arrows!!

I'm not convinced but will let you know how I get on next week when my parts come!
 
109Santana said:
Ok....I'm hoping it's a doddle as since starting this thread my confusion levels have hit the roof! If I line up the crank with the fot/arrow the cylinders are all about half way. I set the pump with the 'special tool and lined it up and hopefully I can line up the camshaft dot with the arrow. All I have to do then is put the head back on and set the tappets.
All this talk in one breath of TDC and then EP and DTI just make it complicated if its a simple as lining up 3 dotd with 3 arrows!!

I'm not convinced but will let you know how I get on next week when my parts come!
Click to expand...
I think you will find everyone was quoting the DTI gauge as you mentioned you could not get to the flywheel locking pin?
 
Last edited:
OK guys,

This DODDLE is most certainly NOT.........

This is my last attempt to find someone who knows what I am doing wrong and can point me in the right direction, if nobody can then I will be looking for a replacement engine.....but it should work,it did before and most of the parts are now new so there has to be a solution.

So,

I have replaced all the valves, the pushrods etc. etc.
Purchased a DTI (though my initial measurements were so damn close I doubt its made any difference - though at least its confirmed things and it wasn't expensive.)
I have also approached this as if I had totally dismantled the top end of the engine...head off, tappet/rocker assembly removed, push rod guides removed/checked, new head gasket.

So, with the head off I rotated the crank and verified TDC of cylinder 1 (and of course cylinder 4) checked with dti and the mark on flywheel is exact with my mark on flywheel cover (no pointer on this engine).

I then replaced the head - minus the rocker assembly - and fitted all the cam stuff and put a new pushrod in valve 1 (exhaust valve cylinder 1) I rotated the camshaft wheel until the dot lined up with the arrow and set the dti to measure EP. A few rotations clockwise verified that valve 1 is fully open with the dot lining up with the arrow, again the dti was exactly where I eyeballed it to be.

I am using the timing method for a later engine as mine has no pointer but does have the hole in the flywheel cover. Also the manual states (for earlier engines) that when the flywheel EP mark is lined up with the pointer then the dot on the crank lines up with the arrow - this does not on my engine, its nowhere near so I have assumed mine is a later engine (again we cannot verify from the engine number!)

I then rotated the crank until the EP mark on the flywheel was in the hole on the flywheel housing and the special tool inserted and locked.

So, I now assume that the crank and the camshaft are both set at EP..........correct me if I'm wrong.
I also set the Distribution pump wheel lined up dot with arrow (this was calibrated with the special tool previously but verified again just for completeness).


With this in mind I now put on a new belt, tensioned it as per the manual page 83 and then rotated it as the manual stated and checked the alignment of dots and arrows on pump and camshaft, the were good so re-tensioned and rotated again - all good.

Now I came to replace the rocker assembly and all the other pushrods. I fitted it very loosely (only finger tight on the bolts) at first just to make sure that I didn't bend any rods if something wasn't right and how that proved to be prudent.....as soon as i started to rotate the engine, clockwise by hand, it jammed....cant remember which valve was touching the piston.
So, I loosened off all the tappets until I could get the engine to rotate freely again - thinking that i could then go through the tappet setting procedure as if it was all new......

I started on page 86 of the manual, with clearance on valve 1. Moving on to the next step resulted in the engine becoming stuck again as soon as the cylinder 1 piston came up ....it contacted with valve 1 that I had just set and stopped any further rotation.........I released the valve adjuster until i could rotate the engine. i tried the next step but found the same thing happened with the valve I had adjusted........now I am confused.........

I removed the rocker assemble and checked all the camshaft and pushrod cups where all properly located and everything seated properly and tried again, rotating the engine and checking the rise of all pushrods with the dti and all was good.
Reassembled the rocker assembly and tried again but got the same result with the valve clearance set it stops the piston going all the way? I have checked everything i can and cannot see anything wrong.

Any help would be appreciated ......but please, if you don't know....don't respond with maybe ifs.....
I have a pretty good handle on how this engine should work, and the correct manual, and the specialist tools so the DODDLE of getting it setup and running should be straightforward.............you'd think eh?

I can also be contacted via whatsapp for any messages, videos etc. on +34 642 315 966 I live in spain and have exhausted all the local garages for help (Spain is not a very helpful country - even when i offered to pay someone!!)

Thanks again and sorry for the longwinded message.
 
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