broken down - crank pulley bolt

Hello there,

I'm in a right pickle here so i thought i would post here and get some opinions..

I'll start from the beggining...

After purchasing the car ( t-reg 2.5L td5 landrover disco 2) from a dealer in bristol, it ran fine for about 2 months.. We did however keep losing coolent and kept topping it up after every journey. We went to a local garage and were told that the head gasket had gone and would need to be replaced..

OK. 2 months of broken promises and un-met deadlines later the car was still in the garage with excuses for it not being finished coming thick and fast every day.. I wont go to much into that part as it was a nightmare and a complete story in itself.. So we get the car back 2 months and 1000 pounds later, head gasket replaced and skimmed, new viscous fan and new pump of some kind...

Also the engine sounded literally like a bag of nails with the mechanic stating that he dident know what that was and that he had landrover people round and such such and so forth.. (we figure the guy dident know what the heck he was doing).

So the cars taken on a 40 mile drive not going over 50mph to my place here in PT for me to listen to the engine and my missus dad..

I took the car out to see how it drove. It has less power than before the new headgasket, no umph if u get my drift.. Also the noise was awful that was coming from the engine, previous to the repair the engine was VERY quiet for a deisel.

Well murphys law happened on that fateful day and as i was driving i noticed the power steering working intermittantly, then the brakes not working properly, the ace light coming on etc.. I stopped the car immediatley and turned the engine off.

I lifted the hood and had a look, not really knowing what im looking for, me not being a mechanic and all i couldent see what was wrong.. I turned the engine over and had it idle-ing as i took another look.

Thats when it hit me.. Nothing as turning on the front, none of the pulleys... Now even I know thats not right.. this ive figured out is why none of the servos were working and pumps that drive the steering brakes and ace system.

Ive decided the problem lies with the crankshaft pulley, so have bought a haynes manual for this model and the viscous fan removal tools and the timing pin things.. so far costing me about 60-70 pounds in total..

I went underneath to see if i could feel the crank pulley bolt and im pretty dam sure that its wobbling..

So im thinking that this cowboy did the bolt up but not tight enough, its worked its way loose and thats why the pulley isent turning..

Im hoping to god that this wont cost me much more money than a new crankshaft pulley bolt from a local 4x4 dealer and at most a 2nd hand crank pulley costing around 120 quid..

My questions are..

What sort of damage might this have done to the end of the crankshaft, if indeed the bolt has just come loose? Is it just get a new bolt tighten it to 339 lbft and drive away happy as larry? or is it going to be over my head??

Also.. could this be why theres a knocking sound? apparantly it doesent sound like a piston slap..

He replaced the head gasket... if he used the wrong thickness could this also cause a knocking sound? because i read up theres three different types..

Ive got the locking pins for the timing so im wondering how difficult this is.. is it something i can do by myself with the haynes manual?

I have little or no tools but do have a little access to the tools required for the job.. ( i hope, im hoping because the tools belong to me missus dad and me and missus have just fell out lol ) EXCEPT a 3/4 inch drive that go's up to 339 lbft torque.. we have a 3/4 inch drive but it doesent go up that high...

As you can see im having a bit of a nightmare.. please help me

if the crank pulley is loose you'll get all sorts of noises, a new bolt is supposed to be fitted when its removed, the timing isnt affected by removing the crank pulley as it has a chain that is driven by a sprocket(cog) inside the cover behind the pulley, the noise could be timing chain chatter, or if the injectors havent been set correctly

if your engine is running and the crank pulley is not turning, most likely the woodruff key between the crank shaft and the crank pulley has gone.

I am now basing on I've done to my the 300tdi late last year when the woodruff key gave way, eating away the woodruff key slot on the crank shaft as well as the crank pulley. Td5 is a different engine, but I do believe they are similar in terms of the pulley configuration.

- bought new crank pulley (new crank bolt comes with it normally)
- drilled 4 small 5mm holes on new crank pulley
- lined up the 4 small holes on crank pulley to crank shaft, and drilled 4 small hole of 5mm on crank shaft
- insert 4 x 5mm metal rod through the holes (this is now the woodruff key) so that they are flushed to the bolt surface of the crank pulley
- use a bigger washer (sufficient to cover the 4 metal rods so that don't come loose), and insert crank bolt....tighten crank bolt to the correct torque

it was a nightmare when I have to do mine, as my disco being an auto, I have no way of 'locking' the crank shaft so that it doesn't turn while I was undoing the bolt. So, out the starter motor, and a suitable bar was inserted into the starter motor mounting locking up the gear, before I managed to undo the 'loose' crank bolt.

2nd nightmare came as when I have to drill the 4 small hole onto the crank shaft as there's insufficient space at front. So, out came the radiator, the air-cond radiator etc etc before I can put the cordless drill in.

Installation is rather easy by comparison.

2nd optioned as mentioned by some mates........weld the crank pulley onto the crank shaft........if you intend to do this......make sure you put new timing belt in......and use suitable welding rod as crank shaft and crank pulley is of different material(cast iron on crank pulley and high tensile steel I believed on crank shaft)

3rd option is....you guessed it...new crank shaft....

Now, guess why I didn't got for 2nd and 3rd option....

Good luck!!

is it still under dealer warrenty?

i should take it back to them as sold not fit for purpose.

cant see why you needed a new viscous fan tho....

if all else fails, find your nearest l/r club, they will have people you can talk to directly, or someone on here in your area that could take a look.

will watch the post, but your a bit too far away for me to come down!

I read this and wonder what you want. Give the guys here a problem, most of the time they give you a solution, an answer and advice. This is not the place for you. If as you say you have no tools, little knowledge and probably a thin skin... go to trading standards. Use Citizens advice. The vehicle possibly was not "fit for purpose" Tell them.. use the law.

nrgserv beat me to it. Same sentiments

kingsonlim said:

if your engine is running and the crank pulley is not turning, most likely the woodruff key between the crank shaft and the crank pulley has gone.

I am now basing on I've done to my the 300tdi late last year when the woodruff key gave way, eating away the woodruff key slot on the crank shaft as well as the crank pulley. Td5 is a different engine, but I do believe they are similar in terms of the pulley configuration.

- bought new crank pulley (new crank bolt comes with it normally)
- drilled 4 small 5mm holes on new crank pulley
- lined up the 4 small holes on crank pulley to crank shaft, and drilled 4 small hole of 5mm on crank shaft
- insert 4 x 5mm metal rod through the holes (this is now the woodruff key) so that they are flushed to the bolt surface of the crank pulley
- use a bigger washer (sufficient to cover the 4 metal rods so that don't come loose), and insert crank bolt....tighten crank bolt to the correct torque

it was a nightmare when I have to do mine, as my disco being an auto, I have no way of 'locking' the crank shaft so that it doesn't turn while I was undoing the bolt. So, out the starter motor, and a suitable bar was inserted into the starter motor mounting locking up the gear, before I managed to undo the 'loose' crank bolt.

2nd nightmare came as when I have to drill the 4 small hole onto the crank shaft as there's insufficient space at front. So, out came the radiator, the air-cond radiator etc etc before I can put the cordless drill in.

Installation is rather easy by comparison.

2nd optioned as mentioned by some mates........weld the crank pulley onto the crank shaft........if you intend to do this......make sure you put new timing belt in......and use suitable welding rod as crank shaft and crank pulley is of different material(cast iron on crank pulley and high tensile steel I believed on crank shaft)

3rd option is....you guessed it...new crank shaft....

Now, guess why I didn't got for 2nd and 3rd option....

Good luck!!

Click to expand...

my 1999 td5 doesnt have the woodruff key the bolt holds it in place

thanks for the advice guys.. the td5 doesent have a woodruff key on the crank pulley, it does on the timing chain sprocket but not the pulley.. looks like the 339 lbft torque is all that keeps it from spinning free from the crankshaft.. maybe its tapered too but ill see that when i have the pulley off.

Sorry spanishlair but sometimes it helps to vent out whats been happening.. So i make this post for those that may be interested in my woes. I was kind of hoping to find a kindly soul near me on these forums that might lend a helping hand.. I suppose you could look at this thread as what CAN happen if you choose the wrong mechanic to play with your engine.. I will update this as i make repairs so you can maybe see what a complete novice can do with a haynes manual and borrowed tools.

Anyway, the dealer is another story.. they dident file the car with there warranty company.. We are looking into trading standards and speaking with our solicitor on how to proceed, thanks for the advice on that part though..

Thats good news in a way johnlad.. im hoping the sounds were because the pulley bolt was loose and that it being loose hasent damaged the pulley or crankshaft in anyway.. I should have the fan of and the radiator out tommorow with a bit of luck my trusty leatherman and of course the haynes manual that has been required reading for me over the last 2 weeks.. ive read up that u can take the pulley out just about without removing the radiator, but since ive already drained all the coolant out in prepartion for removing it i may as well take it out to be on the safe side.. being a novice and all i dont want stuff in there i may dmg while taking of the pulley..

Oh yes! because the guy who did these repairs wasent a proper business yet trading standards cant touch him..

Now, about the injectors... do you mean that he may have re-inserted them in the wrong places? i hear there coded and they have to go in the right spots... is there a way to know what go's where without a diagnostics program?

With the automatic side of things and being unable to lock the crank as you say... how do i lock the crank on the manual? is it with that special tool that bolts into the damper bolt holes?

Thanks Im sorry if im being a pain in any way

ps. Also this cowboy left of the undershield for the engine, its kind of handy now with me about to do these repairs but the bugger has basically nicked it!

It may simply be a case that your Crank Pulley / TV damper has simply failed / starting to come apart, it does happen.

Replacement write up here if your interested....

www.discovery2.co.uk / Crankshaft pulley  / TV damper replacement

Jezath said:

thanks for the advice guys.. the td5 doesent have a woodruff key on the crank pulley, it does on the timing chain sprocket but not the pulley.. looks like the 339 lbft torque is all that keeps it from spinning free from the crankshaft.. maybe its tapered too but ill see that when i have the pulley off.

Sorry spanishlair but sometimes it helps to vent out whats been happening.. So i make this post for those that may be interested in my woes. I was kind of hoping to find a kindly soul near me on these forums that might lend a helping hand.. I suppose you could look at this thread as what CAN happen if you choose the wrong mechanic to play with your engine.. I will update this as i make repairs so you can maybe see what a complete novice can do with a haynes manual and borrowed tools.

Anyway, the dealer is another story.. they dident file the car with there warranty company.. We are looking into trading standards and speaking with our solicitor on how to proceed, thanks for the advice on that part though..

Thats good news in a way johnlad.. im hoping the sounds were because the pulley bolt was loose and that it being loose hasent damaged the pulley or crankshaft in anyway.. I should have the fan of and the radiator out tommorow with a bit of luck my trusty leatherman and of course the haynes manual that has been required reading for me over the last 2 weeks.. ive read up that u can take the pulley out just about without removing the radiator, but since ive already drained all the coolant out in prepartion for removing it i may as well take it out to be on the safe side.. being a novice and all i dont want stuff in there i may dmg while taking of the pulley..

Oh yes! because the guy who did these repairs wasent a proper business yet trading standards cant touch him..

Now, about the injectors... do you mean that he may have re-inserted them in the wrong places? i hear there coded and they have to go in the right spots... is there a way to know what go's where without a diagnostics program?

With the automatic side of things and being unable to lock the crank as you say... how do i lock the crank on the manual? is it with that special tool that bolts into the damper bolt holes?

Thanks Im sorry if im being a pain in any way

ps. Also this cowboy left of the undershield for the engine, its kind of handy now with me about to do these repairs but the bugger has basically nicked it!

Click to expand...

the injectors have to be clamped into there relevant positions preferably matching the data contained in the ecu, then they are wound down until they bottom out then 1 full turn back, to lock the crank pulley i made a simple tool from 2 flat pieces of steel, 1 needs to be long enough to reach the chasis rail the other bolts to it and after removing the damper from the pulley i drilled holes in the steel bars matching the damper bolt holes, fixed the bars to the pulley and undid the crank bolt, its very tight, i didnt have a torque wrench to re fix it so went as tight as i could with a 2' bar, can you describe the type of noise yours is making

Take it back to the garage and create merry hell, FFS, youve obviously paid a lot of money to have your car repaired and they havent done it right

yeah the garage guy is a cowboy and basically tells us to **** off feel like burning his garage down....

Anyway....

Removed the viscous fan with a set of tools i got from ebay, came off in like 15 seconds.. i got my hand down to the pulley and i can turn the crankshaftbolt with my fingers lol...

Waiting on someone to bring there tools over now so i cn releive the tensioner take of the damper remover the belt and pulley and take a look at the possible damage... Ive decided not to remove the radiator and to place a sheet ofmetal in front of it instead..

oldskool said:

Take it back to the garage and create merry hell, FFS, youve obviously paid a lot of money to have your car repaired and they havent done it right

Click to expand...

agreed.

yeah the garage guy is a cowboy and basically tells us to **** off feel like burning his garage down....

worra twaart.

thats why i do my own. not that it helps your case. if you have time and can be sr5ed, get trading standards in. for dealer and garage.

i stand to be corrected but to my knowledge the td5 head cannot be skimmed it has to be replaced?

the lock nut on the end of the pulley must be replaced or it will come loose again no matter how tight you do it it is a fairly hefty torqe

noted, thanks pat... im ordering one now about 7-8 quid, oh and some thread locking compound... can anyone reccomend a good one? a friend said use loctite..

Also was looking at headgaskets and cylinder cover bolts today (for when i do the timing), for both from a landrover dealer its about 100 quid.... will check ebay for cheaper later unless someone has a source better than that

Another friend said if the bolts are fairly new then use the same ones and just torque them 1 pound higher.. Is this a good idea?

Oh and he had the head skimmed i know that for sure, if its not meant to be maybe thats why it sounds like a bag of nails? or would they refuse to skim it? i know the head is aluminum

The crank bolt does not require thread lock, the reason its re-newed is most likely because it "stretches" when installed due to the high torque.

pat murphy said:

i stand to be corrected but to my knowledge the td5 head cannot be skimmed it has to be replaced?

Click to expand...

land rover say it can't be skimmed but i had mine done over 12 month ago and no problems since, and i know a lot of others have had theres skimmed

ok, today i went under the bonnet and released the tensioner.. Removed the belt... took off the damper and started undoing the crank pulley bolt..

Problem one, On the crank pulley theres mountings for the damper bolts, Well all i can see on it are 2 mountings.. With a bit of snapped weld near where the third mounting should be.. will this cause a problem if i use the same pulley?? just holding the damper on with 2 bolts??

Problem Two, On the crank pulley if you look at the side that slots into the engine, its shiny silver and slightly tapered.. Well the front edge of this has sharp burrs on it.. Is this a problem??

Problem three, Tried to remove it without taking the rad out but theres no room so ive removed the indicators, lights then right and left facias and front grill so i can get to the radiator mounting bolts.. is there an easier way than taking out the whole radiator??

Thanks again works stopped again as im waiting on a friend to borrow there socket set to remove the radiator bolts..

I posted a link on page 1, that will show it can be replaced without removing the radiator

2 bolts holding the damper is not enough imo, has one of the been sheared of ? I would suggest you wait until its out the car and have a good look at it, maybe post some pictures ?