Freelander 1 Brake Pipe Flares - Share of Knowledge

andyfreelandy said:

Promised to get back to you all about the types of flares and fittings on the F 1 when I had time.

When I started replacing brake pipes on my project car I was surprised by the lack of clear details on what type of flare and what type of fitting to use. This seems to extend to auto parts suppliers and it appears anyone will sell you whatever they have on the shelf. I worked in a very regulated safety critical industry and it struck me that there should be some standards that apply. The brake system, after all, is relied upon each and every time you put your foot on the brake pedal. It is this system that prevents your internal organs getting scared of the dark and attempting to exit your body !

Trying to focus on what is directly relevant to the Freelander 1 - I identified the following information:

There are two standards SAE and DIN. Usually SAE applies to older cars and DIN to newer cars. Usually SAE uses UNF threaded fittings and DIN uses metric fittings.

You guessed it, the Freelander 1 uses metric fittings but with both SAE and DIN flares!

Some pictures will help here:
This is a 'bubble flare' which most medium priced brake flaring tools seem to produce.
View attachment 181488
This type of flare is not used as original on a Freelander 1. However, panic not if you have used it, it appears that as long as the flare is made in copper it will 'make itself' compatible with the fittings on the Freelander 1. This type of flare is often referred to as an SAE single flare or a bubble flare.

The Freelander uses two types of flare, the SAE double flare (which is made as above and then a 90 degree cone is inserted in the open end to make a recessed seat and a DIN flare, often called a DIN single flare although as far as I can see there is no DIN double flare !
View attachment 181489
The DIN flare used on the Freelander 1 - note that the bottom edge is flat (compare to bubble flare above). This type of flare is used with a flat ended brake pipe nut.
View attachment 181490
DIN flare showing a flat ended brake pipe nut - no recess in the nut as the flare is flat on the bottom edge.
View attachment 181491
SAE double flare showing a recessed (90 degree cone shape) nut as the flare is conical on the bottom edge. Photos below at an angle help see this better.
View attachment 181492
Hopefully the difference between the two types of Freelander 1 brake flares and fittings is now visible. DIN on left and SAE double on the right.

As the recess in the double flare brake pipe nut is 90 degrees, this could be added to a standard flat nut by use of a 90 degree countersink used carefully.

Again, the experience of this site suggests that using flat nuts with SAE double flares works o.k, I think this is because most people use copper pipes which form themselves. If steel was used it may be a different story !

Hopefully the above is clear, if I have confused anyone please ask for clarification and, as I say, this is the result of my research. If anyone has different information it would be good to add it to complete the picture as accurately as possible.

Fittings on the F 1 are 10mm and 12mm (used on some ports on the ABS) threads.

Please bear in mind that I have been working on 2001 - 2003 cars - things may have changed on later vehicles.
My head hurts....................... but thought it worth documenting.

I am going to invest in a better quality set of SAE and separate DIN flare tools. One tool that does both is not possible unless the fixed die can be changed as one has a flat end and the other bubbled. I managed to make DIN flares by reversing the back plate on my tool which has one side recessed and the other flat.

Click to expand...

andyfreelandy said:

Pretty sure all joints to flexi are double sae so the countersunk fitting and double flare.
Just check the flexi end is convex rather than concave. Pretty sure it is.

Click to expand...

andyfreelandy said:

Yes, the above is correct
You'll need a DIN if you make up new ones for the wheel cylinder end though.

Click to expand...

andyfreelandy said:

Looks like you're good to go!
Can't tell if that is cooper or cunifer.

I tend to use cunifer pipe. Copper is OK but is a fit and leave alone pipe.
If you unscrew after a few years it twists and fractures.

Click to expand...

Jayridium said:

The problem with brake pipes twisting isn't the pipe itself, its the nuts, they tend to rust up in the inside and stick to the pipe. Last pipes I did were on my BMW, and I used kunifer pipe and ordered automec stainless brake pipe nuts for them, and they were pricey, like a fiver a nut IIRC, but that is the ultimate solution for brake pipes and fittings.

Click to expand...

Jayridium said:

I've also got one of those brake pipe flaring tools as well a Sykes Pyckavant vice mounted one, the little one is really well made, worthy of the union jack. Cuni, sans fer, can be bent tightly with your thumbs, the pipe bender is more for making nicely radiused larger bends.

Click to expand...