Series 3 Brake/clutch bleeding with syringe or eezibleed

Webley1991 · Jul 24, 2015

I attempted to bleed the brakes the conventional way last weekend and got nowhere. The master cylinder wouldn't even draw any fluid in from the reservoir despite best efforts.

I searched some other threads on here and found one where someone had used a large syringe to bleed the brakes. They had done this by forcing the fluid into each wheel cylinder in turn through the bleed nipple.

To me this makes sense as the fluid will be pushing the air upwards towards the cylinder. This is rather than trying to push the air down from the master cylinder.

If I did this, would I need to keep the pedal pushed down to allow air to escape through the master cylinder?

Also, which would be the best order to bleed the wheel cylinders? I have seen conflicting opinions on this.

I have also heard good reports about the gunson eezibleed. But, apparently doesn't come with the correct sized cap for the series flid reservoir. Do you have to wedge the pedal down for this to work?

As for the clutch, I did manage to get that one done using the tube and jar method. Should the clutch pedal be able to be pressed against the footwell. Also, the vehicle has been an ongoing project. I installed the engine and gearbox last october, and gradually built up the rest of the bodywork around it. I was told that the clutch plate may stick to the flywheel if it was left sat for a long period. How do I check for this?

Thanks for any replies.

tottot · Jul 24, 2015

Gravity, just open bleeder furthest from master and wait for fluid to run clear of bubbles while keeping res topped up. Your problem may be that master cyl seals have become dry and on the first press of the pedal the piston has stuck at the bottom of the cylinder. In this position fluid will not pass from the reservoir so no form of bleeding will work with pedal down.
Clutch plates can stick after sitting some time, Try starting engine with pedal down and in gear [CAREFUL if stuck vehicle will move] However doing this is often enough to free the clutch.

honolulujoe · Jul 24, 2015

I found that it was easier to get someone to kick me in the slats than use the gunson, you get to the same point in a fraction of the time. the universal cap is hopeless, better to get a spare series reservoir top and modify it.

gravity bleeding is best.

draper do a kit which is essentially a bit of tube and a container, but the tube has a one way valve in it. so you can stick the tube on the bleed nipple and press the pedal yourself, useful if you are in a rush. but I have always found gravity bleeding best, can take a bit of time though

wattfield · Jul 24, 2015

honolulujoe said:
I found that it was easier to get someone to kick me in the slats than use the gunson, you get to the same point in a fraction of the time. the universal cap is hopeless, better to get a spare series reservoir top and modify it.

gravity bleeding is best.

draper do a kit which is essentially a bit of tube and a container, but the tube has a one way valve in it. so you can stick the tube on the bleed nipple and press the pedal yourself, useful if you are in a rush. but I have always found gravity bleeding best, can take a bit of time though

I've got something similar I bought in Halfords years ago, just a tube with a non return valve, so you can bleed without opening & closing the bleed nipple all the time.
The syringe option works well on bikes, where it's a single line, but I've never managed to make it work on a car.

Murtle · Jul 25, 2015

I bought the Gunson kit in the hope it would make bleeding easier, what a waste of time, none of the supplied caps fit, so I went back to the tried and tested method of having my mate sat in the seat pumping the pedal in turn with me opening and closing the bleed nipples. This has never failed me, it just takes two people and a long time to complete.

If you have a new master cylinder and the reservoir is full but fluid is not flowing I put my mouth over the top and pressurise the top a few time this gets the fluid into the master cylinder and things start to work then. You can hear the bubbles of air coming out of the master cylinder each time you release the pressure.

Webley1991 · Jul 25, 2015

Thanks for the replies.
Assuming the master cylinder piston has stuck, would a small amount of compressed air pressure un-stick it?

Castor · Jul 26, 2015

In principle, yes.

tottot · Jul 26, 2015

Webley1991 said:
Thanks for the replies.
Assuming the master cylinder piston has stuck, would a small amount of compressed air pressure un-stick it?

That's the way I have done it, should hear piston go back with a thunk if it was stuck.

Blackburn · Jul 27, 2015

Have you got free play at the master cylinders ie when the pedal is up held by the return spring the rod on the master cylinder should have some slack .If not the valve that lets the fluid enter the cylinder could be closed..
Also check the pedal height's is correctly adjusted

dominicbeesley · Jul 27, 2015

Is the pedal return spring stretched or missing? If so you need to get one and may find that you need to pull the pedal back fully when pumping...

waldershelf · Jul 27, 2015

I too bought a gunsons easibleed, what a waste of time. I have a piece of tube with a non return valve in it and a clear plastic bottle. Add some fresh fluid and a mate with a right foot, never fails.

dominicbeesley · Jul 27, 2015

My mate gave me his ezibleed as he'd lost confidence in it. The first time I tried it I managed to drench everything in brake fluid due to the **** seal in the lid. I removed that and made my own and nipped it up with plumber's grips. I also made sure that the tyre I used to pressurise it only had 5 psi in it and then it worked really well. The clutch worked less well than the brakes but was still easier. I did make a complete mess the second time but that was due to being a dopey pillock and undoing the reservoir cap before disconnecting the tyre...neatly removing all the paint off my newly painted chassis!

Webley1991 · Aug 8, 2015

So what is the best order to do the bleeding in?
I have heard starting with the closest cylinder to the master, or the furthest, depending on where I read it.

I got a cap for the reservoir and modified it to fit the eezibleed, so I am hoping it will work.

honolulujoe · Aug 8, 2015

I always do furthest first, so passenger rear, driver rear etc

still think you would be better off doing a gravity job though

divie · Aug 9, 2015

^^^ what he said. Furthest away and gravity. Ensure some free play at master cylinder first, never failed in 35 years of series motors.

Webley1991 · Aug 9, 2015

I had another go at this today. The free play was one problem. Once this was adjusted, the fluid was able to start getting through.

I thought I had managed to get all of the air out, but there is obviously some still in there as the pedal needs to be pumped twice.

I must have bled each wheel in turn about 5 times using pressure bleeding. No bubbles came out and there was still plenty of fluid left in the reservoir.

I am thinking that maybe the master cylinder seals are dry. The cylinder was around 6 months old when the vehicle was taken off the road in 2013. It worked fine then.

honolulujoe · Aug 9, 2015

if you have to pump twice doesn't that mean the shoes aren't set right?

first pump pushes them closer to the drum, second to brake.

I had that problem when I first did the rear cylinders on my s1, someone on here told me to adjust the snail cam to move the shoes closer and it solved the problem

divie · Aug 10, 2015

Yup, sounds like an adjustment problem there. Well done for persevering with the bleeding.

Webley1991 · Aug 10, 2015

Could one of four wheels being wrongly adjusted be enough to cause the problem?

When I first got the vehicle, the whole braking system was in a very poor state. The pedal had to be pumped in order to stop. I first replaced all the pipes, wheel cylinders and shoes. That didn't sort the problem and it turned out to be the master cylinder. Once a replacement was fitted, the brakes worked fine. This is what made me think it could be the master cylinder.

Is it possible to filter the fluid that comes out during bleeding and put it back through the system, as long as it hasn't ben exposed to air for too long? At £8 a litre it's expensive to go to waste.

divie · Aug 10, 2015

I would not re use brake fluid. Most likely to contain air bubbles. Have you tried locking all the adjusters up as far as they will go ? this may prove if air in the system or a snail cam adjustment problem.

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