Bodywork refresh - now it won't fit properly!

So having *nearly* got the mechanics of my rebuild sorted, I'm moving on to the bodywork.

The panels have certainly seen better days, with quite a few off-roading battle scars, and I'm pretty happy that. It's an old, well-used, vehicle, and I don't mind it looking like that.

However, there are quite a few areas of corrosion on the rear tub, particularly around the holes where the sill brackets mounts to the tub, and the 5 pairs of bolts along the lower rear. Photos attached, with the tub upside down on my lawn!

I have a new 'Rear Angle Mounting' (the stepped L-section bean that runs the width of the rear tub where it bolts to the chassis) from YRM, but I'm not quite sure how to remove the old one. It looks like it's been spot welded to the rear panel at the outer edges, sandwiched between a corner bracing.

My questions:
1. What's the best way to remove the Rear Angle Mounting? Do I just cut/grind it out? Drill out the spot weld? Is it attached anywhere other than ends?

2. Any suggestions on how best to attend to the corroded edges? Wire brush to get rid of as much of the oxide as possible and just ignore the missing metal? Rivet strips/plates of aluminium over the top/behind the corroded ares? Cut out completely and weld new pieces into place?

I'm not a welder, and particularly not of aluminium! Do I need to invest in an AC welder, and get practicing, or can I make do with some careful riveting?

If anyone has any photos of how they've addresses similar corrosion issues, I'd be very grateful.



Cheers!

TheMegaMan said:

So having *nearly* got the mechanics of my rebuild sorted, I'm moving on to the bodywork.

The panels have certainly seen better days, with quite a few off-roading battle scars, and I'm pretty happy that. It's an old, well-used, vehicle, and I don't mind it looking like that.

However, there are quite a few areas of corrosion on the rear tub, particularly around the holes where the sill brackets mounts to the tub, and the 5 pairs of bolts along the lower rear. Photos attached, with the tub upside down on my lawn!

I have a new 'Rear Angle Mounting' (the stepped L-section bean that runs the width of the rear tub where it bolts to the chassis) from YRM, but I'm not quite sure how to remove the old one. It looks like it's been spot welded to the rear panel at the outer edges, sandwiched between a corner bracing.

My questions:
1. What's the best way to remove the Rear Angle Mounting? Do I just cut/grind it out? Drill out the spot weld? Is it attached anywhere other than ends?

2. Any suggestions on how best to attend to the corroded edges? Wire brush to get rid of as much of the oxide as possible and just ignore the missing metal? Rivet strips/plates of aluminium over the top/behind the corroded ares? Cut out completely and weld new pieces into place?

I'm not a welder, and particularly not of aluminium! Do I need to invest in an AC welder, and get practicing, or can I make do with some careful riveting?

If anyone has any photos of how they've addresses similar corrosion issues, I'd be very grateful.

View attachment 212344 View attachment 212345 View attachment 212346 View attachment 212347 View attachment 212348 View attachment 212349

Cheers!

Click to expand...

If you look on the first page of this...
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/scot-and-ben.289532/
You'll see I had similar problems. Unfortunately I didn't take enough pictures of it at the time. The rear strip needs to be methodically drilled out. I also replaced the entire n/s rear panel and put a repair panel on the off side. In hindsight I should have put new panels both sides
You can get blind rivets that counter sink which you then put filler and paint over which makes them invisible.
As for the front support areas as it won't be visible I'd remove as much oxidation as possible then paint it to seal it. I've certainly seen worse.

Thanks for that, @Marmaduke . Unfortunately quite a few of the images in the other thread don't seem to be available anymore, but I certainly get the idea.
I'm not overly bothered about using countersunk rivets. Do they really work that well on thin panels? I wouldn't have thought there was enough thickness to countersink into without pulling through.
I've just looked at replacement panels, and they're not cheap, are they? £ 60ish per side... Do you recall where you got the repair panel? That's what's fitted to the blue tub (Scot?), right? I was just going to put a strip a couple of inches wide along the bottom, over the top of the existing (damaged) skin. Did you need to cut away the old panel? I'm wondering how much extra thickness could be squeezed between the tub and the brackets on the rear of the chassis, without buggering up the alignment.
Regarding the front of the tub....hmmm....I could just clean them up, I suppose. I'll see what's left when the oxide has gone.
Is there a good way to clean up the oxide? Anything chemical, just just a wire brush and elbow grease?

TheMegaMan said:

Thanks for that, @Marmaduke . Unfortunately quite a few of the images in the other thread don't seem to be available anymore, but I certainly get the idea.
I'm not overly bothered about using countersunk rivets. Do they really work that well on thin panels? I wouldn't have thought there was enough thickness to countersink into without pulling through.
I've just looked at replacement panels, and they're not cheap, are they? £ 60ish per side... Do you recall where you got the repair panel? That's what's fitted to the blue tub (Scot?), right? I was just going to put a strip a couple of inches wide along the bottom, over the top of the existing (damaged) skin. Did you need to cut away the old panel? I'm wondering how much extra thickness could be squeezed between the tub and the brackets on the rear of the chassis, without buggering up the alignment.
Regarding the front of the tub....hmmm....I could just clean them up, I suppose. I'll see what's left when the oxide has gone.
Is there a good way to clean up the oxide? Anything chemical, just just a wire brush and elbow grease?

Click to expand...

I bought a pair of repair panels 1 of which I haven't used,

This is the near side one, cut the bottom away and the top edge of the panel has got a lip that goes underneath. The rivets have worked quite well though. I used one of the 60 quid jobbers near side instead because of the damage to the rest of the panel. I think putting a 2 inch piece on top of the bottom edge would just look a bodge though.

Wire brush the white stuff off then just treat it.

Hmmm. A few options.
I've found your repair panels on the Bits4Landys web site - thanks for the pointer - but they are currently out of stock. Look interesting, although the join line across the back is going to be annoying if I can't smooth it down properly. I was hoping to avoid a lot of rubbing down and repainting, as I don't have a lot of patience for such things! I can certainly see countersunk rivets would be useful, there. But I guess you prefer the full replacement as you commented you should have done both sides.
Yeah, it might look like a bodge, although if I get the width right, I thought it might complement the cappings. If it doesn't work out, then I just try the repair panels or complete replacements. But if I'm not even going to get the strips to fit, then I won't even bother trying.
I'm guessing I can change the rear panels at a later date just lifting the tub above the rear chassis brackets, without having to take the tub off completely.

@Marmaduke I tried some of those countersunk rivets today. Very impressed. They work far better than I thought they would.

TheMegaMan said:

@Marmaduke I tried some of those countersunk rivets today. Very impressed. They work far better than I thought they would.

Click to expand...

Very good, a bit of filler and paint and you'd never know they were there...

Got the rear tub back on the new chassis today....almost!

Sanity check, please....the chassis brackets do go outside the rear tub, don't they?



With a bit of wiggling, I managed to get the body into the position shown, with the fuel tank neck through the hole in the front of the tub, too. But if I look at the chassis brackets under the front of the tub, there's a significant gap between them and the tub fixing holes - about 10mm, enough to just get my finger between them. Almost like the chassis is just a little too short for the tub.



Is this 'normal'? Do I just tighten the bolts between them and it'll all get pulled magically into position? I'm not quite sure what would be able to move 10mm to make it all fit properly.

I could fit a spacer between the bracket and tub, but if the tub is sitting too far forwards here, I'm worried the door opening won't be big enough for the door to fit. i have added a 1mm strip of aluminium along the bottom of the rear panels to hide the corroded metal (which I think look neat enough), and I was going to add a similar (maybe 2mm) plate behind the front tub fixings, but I wasn't expecting things to be this far out of alignment.

Or am I just worrying too much?

TheMegaMan said:

Got the rear tub back on the new chassis today....almost!

Sanity check, please....the chassis brackets do go outside the rear tub, don't they?

View attachment 214109

With a bit of wiggling, I managed to get the body into the position shown, with the fuel tank neck through the hole in the front of the tub, too. But if I look at the chassis brackets under the front of the tub, there's a significant gap between them and the tub fixing holes - about 10mm, enough to just get my finger between them. Almost like the chassis is just a little too short for the tub.

View attachment 214112

Is this 'normal'? Do I just tighten the bolts between them and it'll all get pulled magically into position? I'm not quite sure what would be able to move 10mm to make it all fit properly.

I could fit a spacer between the bracket and tub, but if the tub is sitting too far forwards here, I'm worried the door opening won't be big enough for the door to fit. i have added a 1mm strip of aluminium along the bottom of the rear panels to hide the corroded metal (which I think look neat enough), and I was going to add a similar (maybe 2mm) plate behind the front tub fixings, but I wasn't expecting things to be this far out of alignment.

Or am I just worrying too much?

Click to expand...

TheMegaMan said:

Got the rear tub back on the new chassis today....almost!

Sanity check, please....the chassis brackets do go outside the rear tub, don't they?

View attachment 214109

With a bit of wiggling, I managed to get the body into the position shown, with the fuel tank neck through the hole in the front of the tub, too. But if I look at the chassis brackets under the front of the tub, there's a significant gap between them and the tub fixing holes - about 10mm, enough to just get my finger between them. Almost like the chassis is just a little too short for the tub.

View attachment 214112

Is this 'normal'? Do I just tighten the bolts between them and it'll all get pulled magically into position? I'm not quite sure what would be able to move 10mm to make it all fit properly.

I could fit a spacer between the bracket and tub, but if the tub is sitting too far forwards here, I'm worried the door opening won't be big enough for the door to fit. i have added a 1mm strip of aluminium along the bottom of the rear panels to hide the corroded metal (which I think look neat enough), and I was going to add a similar (maybe 2mm) plate behind the front tub fixings, but I wasn't expecting things to be this far out of alignment.

Or am I just worrying too much?

Click to expand...

Very often spacer shims fitted there but may well have rotted out, they are made of ally. if every thing else fits ok then make up your own spacers to fit

minecab said:

Very often spacer shims fitted there but may well have rotted out, they are made of ally. if every thing else fits ok then make up your own spacers to fit

Click to expand...

Yeah, there was a spacer shim each side, but only a mm or two - nowhere near as thick as it looks like I need at the moment.

I've just offered the door up to the bodywork, and I do think I have a problem. While the door fitted between the tub and the bulkhead, and there's a small amount of adjustment in the position of the hinge captive nuts in the bulkhead, I still think the hinge position will put the door far enough backwards that it won't be able to shut properly.

I'm going to lift the tub off again, and see if I can make a little 'adjustment' to the 5 brackets on back of the chassis. I have measured the distance between the front and rear brackets on the old and new chassis, and the new one is definitely about 5mm shorter between them. If I can get a couple of mm back, that might be enough...

That’s seriously out. You need to check the chassis dimension and body fixings.Fettling won’t solve that alignment issue, something needs to be adjusted elsewhere.

Hmmm, OK. I was struggling to understand where any adjustment can be made. There is definitely about 5mm difference between the old and new chassis, but surely Richards wouldn't have let a chassis out with the brackets too far out of position, would they? What kind of tolerance would be expected on these?

But it's occurred to me that I have replaced the rear angle mounting on the tub. It felt like it naturally fitted into one position, but in retrospect, I may have pushed it too hard against the rear panels, and I guess there is a certain mount of movement in these. So I could regain a few mm by repositioning this. Fingers crossed, moving the rear angle, tapping the rear chassis brackets back a mm or so, and fitting a thicker shim at the front, will solve the problem...