Bleeding the bleeding brakes!

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ScratchyDom said:
I set it to the same length as the old one. What's confoosing me is that with a coupla pumps the pedal comes up...
Click to expand...

is this with all the pipes crimped off if so its still air try the following . you cant pump out adjustment of the push-rod .

bleed at the master then at every juncture , till the pipes , then finally at the wheels . the best way i always found was gravity bleed that's just allow it to leak off and keep the res topped up constantly . at each stage tighten and test .
 
Have to disagree with auotogas, if push rod is out of adjustment you can get something of a pedal by pumping, [as long as it's not way out] but agree the wait and see method of bleeding is best.Let gravity do the work.
 
Blackburn said:
Is it the correct master cylinder that you have fitted and who's manufacture?
Click to expand...

Um, yeah. And it's Bearmach.


tottot said:
Have to disagree with auotogas, if push rod is out of adjustment you can get something of a pedal by pumping, [as long as it's not way out] but agree the wait and see method of bleeding is best.Let gravity do the work.
Click to expand...

Really? That means if the rod is correctly adjusted and you pump the pedal, the pedal would go up so there's no travel at all, wouldn't it.?

When I fitted the MC I left the bleed nipples open (in order) until they had dripped though an inch or two into a jam jar. Is that the way?
 
I have just bought a halfords kit VIZIBLEED basically a one way valve with a plastic bottle on the end for £6 its one man operation, I replaced both cylinders on my 88" S3 rear and fitted new LPR shoes, after struggling to adjust and get a pedal, removed the drum and a chrome peg fell out that should be fixed to the shoe for the cam adjuster.(other side was loose too) swapped for TRW shoes. put the springs on correctly this time, and the clamp at bottom and using the Vizibleed was quick and easy and and see bubbles in the clear tube, solid pedal straight away.

other fault, I had the top springs initially to each shoe pulling in both shoes off the drum needing an extra pump on the pedal, as otheres have said a g clamp on the flexis can point to problem corner
 
steve2286w said:
I have just bought a halfords kit VIZIBLEED basically a one way valve with a plastic bottle on the end for £6 its one man operation, I replaced both cylinders on my 88" S3 rear and fitted new LPR shoes, after struggling to adjust and get a pedal, removed the drum and a chrome peg fell out that should be fixed to the shoe for the cam adjuster.(other side was loose too) swapped for TRW shoes. put the springs on correctly this time, and the clamp at bottom and using the Vizibleed was quick and easy and and see bubbles in the clear tube, solid pedal straight away.

other fault, I had the top springs initially to each shoe pulling in both shoes off the drum needing an extra pump on the pedal, as otheres have said a g clamp on the flexis can point to problem corner
Click to expand...

G clamp has been on the flexis to no avail. Thinking it must be the MC adjustment. Will have a play tomorrow.

Oh, I use a clear tube for bleeding and there are no more bubbles...
 
We have been trying to get good brakes on a friend's wife's 88.
for 2 years.
cr@p shoes.
cr@p drums.
cr@p cylinders.
Where can you buy good quality parts?
Blue boxes, generally cr@p, green boxes same cr@p but more expensive.
Volvo?
Fitted new wheel cylinders in 1995, to a 1966 car. Still ok.
 
the spring that returns the shoe when you release the pedal should only be hooked from one shoe and then to a post. not to the other shoe (as in most cars), the other shoe just kinda sits in place with no return spring, if you connect the spring to both shoes, you will never be able to bleed the brakes. this is not from experiance, but was the first thing the mot guy told me. lol
 
ScratchyDom said:
Um, yeah. And it's Bearmach.




Really? That means if the rod is correctly adjusted and you pump the pedal, the pedal would go up so there's no travel at all, wouldn't it.?

When I fitted the MC I left the bleed nipples open (in order) until they had dripped though an inch or two into a jam jar. Is that the way?
Click to expand...
What can happen some times with a new dry master cylinder is on the first press of the pedal the piston moves up the barrel and sticks there,the spring inside being unable to return it and then no amount of pumping will help. Had this happen a couple of times over the years.
 
tottot said:
What can happen some times with a new dry master cylinder is on the first press of the pedal the piston moves up the barrel and sticks there,the spring inside being unable to return it and then no amount of pumping will help. Had this happen a couple of times over the years.
Click to expand...

How does one unstick the piston? And would the fact that the pedal comes up after a couple of pumps discount this...?
 
ScratchyDom said:
Just fitted new master cylinder so hope that's okay! Will check the lines again in daylight. Before changing the master cylinder loads of bubbles were coming out and kept coming out when bleeding. Changed master cylinder and the fluid coming out is clear of bubbles but the pedal still goes to the floor...
Click to expand...

if pedal takes a few pumps and you have bled and clamped flexis and pipe works fine it must be poor m/c
 
#I too have experienced problem brakes on a series 2a.

I don't like to dwell on it but I can remember the sense of despair at my efforts to establish efficient brakes, my wife ended up with the legs of a champion cyclist, no matter what we did, vacuum etc. was all to no avail.#

For me at least, a remote servo was the answer, you take the pipe from the MC in one end and the pipe to the brakes in the other, and a vacuum pipe to the manifold. There is a bleed nipple fitted and that's it, talk about a sense of relief.....!

The gear I'm talking about is termed a " Remote Brake Booster/Servo" and are made by PBR.

My unit has the details:-#

PATEN BRAKE REPLACEMENTS, VH40-1, Model 2.

The main problem is finding somewhere to mount it, I ended up making a bracket, mounted off the chassis on the manifold side of the engine bay.#

I don't know if that model is still current but they have one listed on EBay, with the designation VH-44 At varying prices, the cheapest being $175 post paid which I would think, do the job.

If you email PBR and quote the above details, I feel sure they could offer you the correct alternative.

I did the job myself without an probs.

Anyway guys, hope all this helps, talk soon,


Norm.
 
Can you compare the physical size - shape of your old master cylinder to your new , if the seal on master is not passing- no air in system- pushrod set up correct then the only thing left to be wrong is incorrect size master ie wrong diameter - stroke length.
Post some pics of old and new.
The other test you could do would be to blank the outlet of master cylinder then try pedal should be little or no movement.
Also to prove if master cylinder seal passing pump the brakes up and keep your foot on pedal if it does not go down seal is ok.
 
I didn't clamp all the flexis at the same time. Itchy has let me know by leaking all her brake fluid outa the front two flexi pipes. Famous Four had supplied me with the wrong flexi pipe kit and that seems to be where the problem lay.

Good on 'em (hopefully), they've shipping replacements directly and will arrange an uplift of the wrong 'uns at a later date.

Hopefully the new ones will be here by Tuesday and I can let you know it's all workings.
 
So, the next chapter in this saga..

Famous Four shipped me some new flexis direct from Bearmach and again they were wrong - apparently there's a whole batch labelled up wrong. So they sourced them from elsewhere and sent me... ... ...Britpart :eek: But they seem okay so I thought, feck it and fitted them.

So BOOMER kindly came over this morning to give me a hand bleeding through. Loads of bubbles came out and all seemed to be going well. But the pedal went to the floor again. Feck. On closer inspection we noticed that someone (i.e. me) hadn't tightened the reservoir to master cylinder pipe (although, in hindsight, I don't think that would be under pressure so probably wouldn't caused much more than a little leak).

Anyway, with that nipped up we bled again (up... down... and repeat ad nauseum) full of hope and misplaced optimism. Soft pedal, yet again.

I remembered that I hadn't wound the adjusters back in from previous attempts. Did the backs, tried to do the fronts but the NSF was a bit stick. That's when fluid came out of the drum's drainhole.

So, new set of shoes, pair of drums and a NSF slave cylinder going on order tomorrow.
 
whatalotafun said:
the spring that returns the shoe when you release the pedal should only be hooked from one shoe and then to a post. not to the other shoe (as in most cars), the other shoe just kinda sits in place with no return spring, if you connect the spring to both shoes, you will never be able to bleed the brakes. this is not from experiance, but was the first thing the mot guy told me. lol
Click to expand...

any truth in this guys?
 
Bottom spring goes shoe to shoe ,top spring only goes post to leading shoe. Thats on 10" setup
Cannot see how it can affect bleeding though. Unless the bleed nipple has not been opened sufficiently as piston could theoretically move .
 
Blackburn said:
Bottom spring goes shoe to shoe ,top spring only goes post to leading shoe. Thats on 10" setup
Cannot see how it can affect bleeding though. Unless the bleed nipple has not been opened sufficiently as piston could theoretically move .
Click to expand...

I don't see how it can really effect bleeding. I'll post photos inside the drums when they're apart next.

In the meantime, here's my Dorset axle stand. (I'd used all three of mine and didn't fancy going underneath to sort the flexi with the Landy up on a trolley jack only).

1625600_10202260326444346_536512007_n.jpg
 
Just spoke to Dave at Famous Four and he had some good reasoning...

It'll always be the weakest cylinder to fail. So my OSR went first, when bleeding for that I fecked the master cylinder, now that's working the front has gone as that was the next weakest. If I replace that then there is a good chance that another will fail, and another.

So, I'm ordering the frickin' lot and changing them all! I don't want to be bothering with this again in a hurry...

So, all new wheel cylinders, new master cylinder, new flexis, new shoes and drums on the front. That should keep it good for a few months, eh? :eek:
 
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