Bleeding 12j 2.5 NA Diesel

GBmoto · Oct 1, 2016

Wondering if anyone can help. Have rebuilt a 2.5 nad on a very good recon bottom end.

But cannot get it to run! Basically can bleed to the filter no probs (in fact a lot of pressure there) but cannot get anything from the bleed on the top of the injector pump.

Seems to be getting to the pump and the solenoid (which I have tested and works) as I get diesel bleeding if I loosen either.

One suggestion I found was to blank the return (tbh there was a lot more diesel in there than expected) but that doesn't seem to have helped.

The pump is apparently OK and was with the bottom end which still had the hone marks on the bores and piston rings that gapped pretty much as new, therefore assuming the pump is similarly good...but realistically is an unknown.

Any ideas anyone?

blue beasty · Oct 1, 2016

You could try a gravity feed from a bottle direct to the injection pump which will confirm if the problem is forwards or backwards from there.

Have you tried cracking injector nuts to bleed straight through?

Flossie · Oct 1, 2016

Mine started instantly after a full rebuild, it was so quick it caught me off gaurd a bit.
I knackered that engine after the water pump failed and fitted a 200 tdi instead but I kept the re calibrated FIP, injectors and starter etc.
Most of the bits have gone now but I still have the FIP and the starter (or alternator, I forget which).
I've never bothered advertising them, I just offer them up if anybody asks for one or the other and no one has yet.
So, if you need one I have a good one here for sale.
I did read on here about someone spinning a pump fast(on a lathe may be??) Which got it pumping again but don't do it dry!

freelance · Oct 1, 2016

Presume you are bleeding with the ignition on?

freelance · Oct 1, 2016

And have you got pipes right from filter head?

Blackburn · Oct 1, 2016

Which end of the injection pump have you got the feed? Should be the solenoid ie drivers end.
IJ pump plungers can stick if been left without diesel inside.

samc88 · Oct 2, 2016

Is your solenoid actually working (can you hear a click?).
It does take a lot of pumping to fill the pump.
A quick trick I did to bleed the injector pipes was to hook upjump leads to another car and keep cranking her over till you get fuel to the pipes, cranks over faster and doesnt drain the battery so much

GBmoto · Oct 2, 2016

Hi All, many thanks for the swift reply's

Yes solenoid is operating OK, removed and tested, and yes the feed is at the solenoid end

Have done a bit of manual pumping but mostly on the starter, filter primed really quickly so I guess the lift pump is Ok (ir's new but!!!!) Had it jumped across to another car so it has had a lot of cranking!

No diesel seems to be getting beyond the pump so I think the pump is gummed up as it may well have been left for a while empty.

I have syringed diesel in through the bleed port yesterday in the vain hope that it may loosen up but not optimistic!

Any way to ungum other than sent to a specialist!

Marmaduke · Oct 2, 2016

When I had a 19j engine it would never prime and start after I'd done anything fuel related so I always used easy start for it's initial start then it would be great after that. Got a 300tdi now and that's self priming

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

Marmaduke said:
When I had a 19j engine it would never prime and start after I'd done anything fuel related so I always used easy start for it's initial start then it would be great after that. Got a 300tdi now and that's self priming

Probably a fair guess that engine has now gone to the scrapyard. Easystart ruins engines.

No reason any CAV fuel system wont bleed, if it is plumbed right, no leaks and no blockages.

urbandekay · Oct 2, 2016

Turboman said:
Probably a fair guess that engine has now gone to the scrapyard. Easystart ruins engines.

No reason any CAV fuel system wont bleed, if it is plumbed right, no leaks and no blockages.

Just using easystart for initial start up will not ruin an engine, continued use may

potus · Oct 2, 2016

Sorry a bit off topic.......I have always heard thing about Easystart causing problems, anyone know why this is the case?

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

urbandekay said:
Just using easystart for initial start up will not ruin an engine, continued use may

Up to yu what you do!

I wouldn't even have the stuff on the place.

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

potus said:
Sorry a bit off topic.......I have always heard thing about Easystart causing problems, anyone know why this is the case?

Easystart is ether, which explodes very violently in the cylinder, damaging the tops of the pistons and possibly the rings as well.

Some old stuff, especially military trucks meant to operate in very low temperatures, had ether starting as standard, from fixed bottles. But the piston crowns on those engines were specially designed to handle it.

potus · Oct 2, 2016

Turboman said:
Easystart is ether, which explodes very violently in the cylinder, damaging the tops of the pistons and possibly the rings as well.

Some old stuff, especially military trucks meant to operate in very low temperatures, had ether starting as standard, from fixed bottles. But the piston crowns on those engines were specially designed to handle it.

Cheers, makes total sense. Must admit I've seen some pretty large backfires when someone has tried to start a bike engine on ES.

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

GBmoto said:
Hi All, many thanks for the swift reply's

Yes solenoid is operating OK, removed and tested, and yes the feed is at the solenoid end

Have done a bit of manual pumping but mostly on the starter, filter primed really quickly so I guess the lift pump is Ok (ir's new but!!!!) Had it jumped across to another car so it has had a lot of cranking!

No diesel seems to be getting beyond the pump so I think the pump is gummed up as it may well have been left for a while empty.

I have syringed diesel in through the bleed port yesterday in the vain hope that it may loosen up but not optimistic!

Any way to ungum other than sent to a specialist!

Remove fuel filter, fill it with petrol, replace, bleed again. Then loosen an injector union, and crank over in short bursts, so as not to melt starter motor.
You may find the petrol will loosen up the gummed up pump internals.

Marmaduke · Oct 2, 2016

Turboman said:
Probably a fair guess that engine has now gone to the scrapyard. Easystart ruins engines.

No reason any CAV fuel system wont bleed, if it is plumbed right, no leaks and no blockages.

Actually it was the injection pump that developed a leak that caused its demise so nothing to do with easy start but yeah I'm sure using easy start once would do far more damage than filling the fuel filter with petrol

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

Marmaduke said:
Actually it was the injection pump that developed a leak that caused its demise so nothing to do with easy start but yeah I'm sure using easy start once would do far more damage than filling the fuel filter with petrol

Running petrol through it will do no harm.

Never does, it is just the same as injector cleaner, marketed in little bottles at great cost.

I have often cleaned pumps with petrol, and when we were on forestry work up north we would put a gallon of petrol in the tanks of our series and tractors to prevent diesel waxing. Not seen it cause problems, I have seen it work.

I have seen several engines ruined with easy start.

urbandekay · Oct 2, 2016

potus said:
Sorry a bit off topic.......I have always heard thing about Easystart causing problems, anyone know why this is the case?

One problem is if too much is sprayed in then it can cause hydraulic locking or by passing the rings it can strip layer of oil from them promoting rapid ring wear, some easystart products contain a lubricant to mitigate this effect. Used correctly, with only a small amount sprayed in on rare occasions it won't cause you any problem

Turboman · Oct 2, 2016

urbandekay said:
One problem is if too much is sprayed in then it can cause hydraulic locking or by passing the rings it can strip layer of oil from them promoting rapid ring wear, some easystart products contain a lubricant to mitigate this effect. Used correctly, with only a small amount sprayed in on rare occasions it won't cause you any problem

That's probably about right as well, but too much is not good.
I have seen top edges of the piston crowns smeared up inside the bores a few times!

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