Bigger turbo for p38 dse ???

Mike v.t.s · Nov 12, 2011

i iftted a recon turbo but now im wondering if theres a bigger or more powerfull turbo i can fit to my p38 diesel with out doing any drastic mods to pipework etc etc, has any1 uprated theres and was it worth it?? i dont want **** loads extra power... id be happy with just a tad... to help the psi box...

Mike v.t.s · Nov 12, 2011

****... i said recon... i ment second hand...

Datatek · Nov 13, 2011

Your gearbox is still working then? If it's an auto save up for a conversion from the ZF4HP22 to the ZF4HP24 before you even think about destroying your engine with a bigger turbo. Some people are just gluttons for punishment:behindsofa:

996TURBO · Nov 13, 2011

Looks like ZF gearbox on the P38 deals better with torque increase (from remap or power box) than the L322 GM ****ty gearbox

zen · Nov 13, 2011

you dont need a bigger turbo.will just give you more lag and proberly less boost as you have a pocky little engine.

.bigger intercooler,prehaps turn up boost on turbo...or variable vane turbo of similar size..but defo not bigger turbo..

Mike v.t.s · Nov 13, 2011

Datatek said:
Your gearbox is still working then? If it's an auto save up for a conversion from the ZF4HP22 to the ZF4HP24 before you even think about destroying your engine with a bigger turbo. Some people are just gluttons for punishment:behindsofa:

Yes its still working, ive just got to set off in 1st then when i get to around 10mph i can pop it into drive, what is this conversion you speak of?? got my heart racing lol... is the zf4hp24 the petrol auto box and how or what do i have to do? many thanks.

Datatek · Nov 13, 2011

Mike v.t.s said:
Yes its still working, ive just got to set off in 1st then when i get to around 10mph i can pop it into drive, what is this conversion you speak of?? got my heart racing lol... is the zf4hp24 the petrol auto box and how or what do i have to do? many thanks.

It's off the 4.6 petrol. As far as I can see it's a straight swap as long as you use the shorter extension between it and the transfer box to accomodate it's extra length and the bell housing from the diesel. Can't be sure though as I can't afford a ZF4HP24 to try it.

As others have said, a bigger turbo is pointless. You can up the boost on the existing turbo

mcapinha · Nov 13, 2011

If you do up the turbo boost (some have it running around 1.3bar) be very carefull with the pressure gauge that you install to monitor it. I know of a guy who installed a crap chinese ricer-boy gauge that was giving a reading of 1.3 when the turbo was really putting out 1.5bar. Enough to say that the engine didn't live for much longer

Also, take a look at fitting a bigger intercooler. Higher turbo pressures lead to higher temperatures that in turn lead to higher exhaust gas temperatures. Fitting a bigger IC will lower the intake temperatures but will also increase your turbo lag.

SpudH · Nov 13, 2011

Mike v.t.s said:
i iftted a recon turbo but now im wondering if theres a bigger or more powerfull turbo i can fit to my p38 diesel with out doing any drastic mods to pipework etc etc, has any1 uprated theres and was it worth it?? i dont want **** loads extra power... id be happy with just a tad... to help the psi box...

The standard turbo is more than capable of putting out all the boost you could want (or that the engine can take for that matter). Mine runs at 1.2bar above atmospheric (17psi, 120kpa) which is just at the top end of manufacturers recommendations.

I've seen on faultmate Seanmuls put out 160kpa with the wastegate disconnected so that will give you an idea of what a bog standard turbo can give but running that all the time is not recommended without at least a bigger intercooler. The problem with running bigger boost is giving it enough diesel and making sure the exhaust gas temp doesn't get hot enough to burn out the valves.

You've also got the issue that Datatek is on about that the gearbox is not designed for that much torque. IIRC the 4.6 also had uprated diffs (4 pin as opposed to the 2 pin fitted to DSE and 4.0). Although to be honest, my DSE has 144k on it and has had a powerbox for most of that pulling trailers and being thrashed on forestry roads and the gearbox has held up just fine.

Datatek · Nov 13, 2011

SpudH said:
The standard turbo is more than capable of putting out all the boost you could want (or that the engine can take for that matter). Mine runs at 1.2bar above atmospheric (17psi, 120kpa) which is just at the top end of manufacturers recommendations.

I've seen on faultmate Seanmuls put out 160kpa with the wastegate disconnected so that will give you an idea of what a bog standard turbo can give but running that all the time is not recommended without at least a bigger intercooler. The problem with running bigger boost is giving it enough diesel and making sure the exhaust gas temp doesn't get hot enough to burn out the valves.

You've also got the issue that Datatek is on about that the gearbox is not designed for that much torque. IIRC the 4.6 also had uprated diffs (4 pin as opposed to the 2 pin fitted to DSE and 4.0). Although to be honest, my DSE has 144k on it and has had a powerbox for most of that pulling trailers and being thrashed on forestry roads and the gearbox has held up just fine.

I believe that 4 pin diffs were fitted to the diesel with traction control?

SpudH · Nov 13, 2011

Datatek said:
I believe that 4 pin diffs were fitted to the diesel with traction control?

The definitive answer to that is in a thread on here somewhere a few months back. unfortunately I can't remember

I'll try and search through my posts to find it.

But if I was to guess, I don't think the 4 pin went in the DSE's at all and if they did it was rear axle only.

Datatek · Nov 13, 2011

SpudH said:
The definitive answer to that is in a thread on here somewhere a few months back. unfortunately I can't remember I'll try and search through my posts to find it.

But if I was to guess, I don't think the 4 pin went in the DSE's at all and if they did it was rear axle only.

Rear axle with 2 wheel TC and both axles with 4 wheel TC, at least that's what I have read. Never had one apart, so no idea if it's true

SpudH · Nov 13, 2011

Found it,

It was a thread back in January http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/p-38-diffs-136568.html#post1397123

Wammers the b*stard of course had the info

Wammers is correct. 2 pins front and rear for all cars except the 4.6 which has a 2 pin front and 4 pin rear.
One exception is a Police Rangie which has 4 pins front and rear regardless of models.

Seems 4 pin was added to the front of HSE in 1999 when 4 wheel TC came in but other than 4.6's the rest are 2 pin.

Mike v.t.s · Nov 16, 2011

SpudH said:
The standard turbo is more than capable of putting out all the boost you could want (or that the engine can take for that matter). Mine runs at 1.2bar above atmospheric (17psi, 120kpa) which is just at the top end of manufacturers recommendations.

I've seen on faultmate Seanmuls put out 160kpa with the wastegate disconnected so that will give you an idea of what a bog standard turbo can give but running that all the time is not recommended without at least a bigger intercooler. The problem with running bigger boost is giving it enough diesel and making sure the exhaust gas temp doesn't get hot enough to burn out the valves.

You've also got the issue that Datatek is on about that the gearbox is not designed for that much torque. IIRC the 4.6 also had uprated diffs (4 pin as opposed to the 2 pin fitted to DSE and 4.0). Although to be honest, my DSE has 144k on it and has had a powerbox for most of that pulling trailers and being thrashed on forestry roads and the gearbox has held up just fine.

how do i turn up the boost pressure?? and where is it situated? do you mean by adjusting the metal bar underneath the turbo? which way do i wind it and by how much? this could be why the turbo i fitted isnt as good as my old un ,many thanks

SpudH · Nov 17, 2011

Mike v.t.s said:
how do i turn up the boost pressure?? and where is it situated? do you mean by adjusting the metal bar underneath the turbo? which way do i wind it and by how much? this could be why the turbo i fitted isnt as good as my old un ,many thanks

Mike,

Before you go messing too much with the boost have a read of this thread:

DSE Power!!! increased boost pressure...

The guy Chas is the best guy I've come across on the P38 DSE and has helped me out many times with top advice. He raced diesel Beemers so probaby knows more than most about the M51 engine.

If you do a search on ebay there is are devices for small money (£40) that claim to allow you adjust the boost easily:

RANGE ROVER P38 TURBO BOOST CONTROLLER GAUGE KIT 2 | eBay

I fitted something like that but less sophisticated to an old 200tdi RRC I had. With the 200tdi adjusting the boost was a simple case of adjusting the length of the wastegate actuator rod. I got my 200tdi operating right on the maximum recommended manufacturer setting, but did not go any further.

With my P38 I didn't have to adjust it as when I checked it with faultmate I was already right on the max. I was just lucky I guess but that means that I haven't actually done the P38 myself. Two of my P38 friends over here have adjusted theirs so I know it is pretty straightforward.

RobCavendish · Nov 19, 2011

Once you start playing with boost pressures and you don't really understand what you are doing, your engine life can be measured in days, or weeks at most. If you want more power I would advise you buy a more powerful motor. Trust me, if you do start playing with your turbo wastegate it won't be long before you wish you hadn't!

Datatek · Nov 19, 2011

SpudH said:
Mike,

Before you go messing too much with the boost have a read of this thread:

DSE Power!!! increased boost pressure...

The guy Chas is the best guy I've come across on the P38 DSE and has helped me out many times with top advice. He raced diesel Beemers so probaby knows more than most about the M51 engine.

If you do a search on ebay there is are devices for small money (£40) that claim to allow you adjust the boost easily:

RANGE ROVER P38 TURBO BOOST CONTROLLER GAUGE KIT 2 | eBay

I fitted something like that but less sophisticated to an old 200tdi RRC I had. With the 200tdi adjusting the boost was a simple case of adjusting the length of the wastegate actuator rod. I got my 200tdi operating right on the maximum recommended manufacturer setting, but did not go any further.

With my P38 I didn't have to adjust it as when I checked it with faultmate I was already right on the max. I was just lucky I guess but that means that I haven't actually done the P38 myself. Two of my P38 friends over here have adjusted theirs so I know it is pretty straightforward.

Spud, someone on that thread is talking bollocks. The Bosch EDC on the P38 cannot, as far as I can see, be re-mapped via the OBD port (unlike my Transit) which is why there are power boxes and solder in super chips.

zen · Nov 19, 2011

if you gonna play,first go buy a decent egt gauge and install along with decnt boost gauge...

also install lpg injection unit..

i get more whoosh than any 3.9v8 unit i have had out of my old nissan 6pot powered rrc,i run 2bar on what was a n/a engine,sod off i/c +lpg..its a 3.3l but ancient and now at 50kmiles ike this..BUT have egt gauge,so can monitor and know when to back off!!

Mike v.t.s · Nov 19, 2011

RobCavendish said:
Once you start playing with boost pressures and you don't really understand what you are doing, your engine life can be measured in days, or weeks at most. If you want more power I would advise you buy a more powerful motor. Trust me, if you do start playing with your turbo wastegate it won't be long before you wish you hadn't!

SpudH said:
Mike,

Before you go messing too much with the boost have a read of this thread:

DSE Power!!! increased boost pressure...

The guy Chas is the best guy I've come across on the P38 DSE and has helped me out many times with top advice. He raced diesel Beemers so probaby knows more than most about the M51 engine.

If you do a search on ebay there is are devices for small money (£40) that claim to allow you adjust the boost easily:

RANGE ROVER P38 TURBO BOOST CONTROLLER GAUGE KIT 2 | eBay

I fitted something like that but less sophisticated to an old 200tdi RRC I had. With the 200tdi adjusting the boost was a simple case of adjusting the length of the wastegate actuator rod. I got my 200tdi operating right on the maximum recommended manufacturer setting, but did not go any further.

With my P38 I didn't have to adjust it as when I checked it with faultmate I was already right on the max. I was just lucky I guess but that means that I haven't actually done the P38 myself. Two of my P38 friends over here have adjusted theirs so I know it is pretty straightforward.

i did play with the boost pressure on my van and increased it by quite alot and didnt have any problems with it, and coverd 150,000 miles... i just wanted to check coz at the moment my rangie is a tad tempermental to say the least

SpudH · Nov 20, 2011

Datatek said:
Spud, someone on that thread is talking bollocks. The Bosch EDC on the P38 cannot, as far as I can see, be re-mapped via the OBD port (unlike my Transit) which is why there are power boxes and solder in super chips.

Thats what he was told too. His english is not great but from what I made out he had a replacement chip in the EDC that he claimed was remappable via OBD.

I've no idea if that is true or even feasible.

Whats more telling is the solid advice from the other posters, Chas in particular but the guy Steve knows what he is taliking about too. I re-read the entire thread tonight and just realised now that the exact instructions on upping the boost are given in the later pages. I knew I'd read it somewhere:doh:

Bigger turbo for p38 dse ???

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