Freelander 1 Beware - these are out there :o

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The Mad Hat Man

The Mad Hat Man

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LZIR Despatch Agent
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FL1 - 2wd only Intermediate Reduction Drive (IRD) Units

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Cost: £350
2WD only unit

6 month warranty

For customers who primarily use their Freelander onroad or wish to cut the repair cost we now offer the option of 2WD only IRD units. These units look exactly the same as a normal 4WD unit, but only supply front wheel drive. The output shaft is still retained so the prop shaft and VCU can remain attached, giving the apperance from underneath the car that car is still running in 4WD. Please note we do not carry these units in stock as they are built to order to the customers specification. Units are sold on an exchabge basis, i.e we must have you old unit in exchange for the advertised price. If you do not have an exchange unit there is a £100 surcharge. A surcharge will be charged for return units with damaged casing and/or oil coolers.

Contact: info@bell engineering.co.uk
 
That's how I rebuilt my IRD - I'm still carrying all the original kit - less the pinion gear.

Since doing it neither the tyres or VCU have cause any damage to the IRD or rear diff :)

I did it like this 'cos it wouldn't pass the WOF/MOT if the props were missing.

I do though now have an uncastrated IRD in my garage and a VCU to rebuild, so will be back to 4WD at some time.

If you want to make sure the Freelander you are buying is 4WD, the only way to check is to jack a rear wheel and see if it turns.
 
Nodge68 said:
These have been on sale for a while MHM.
Click to expand...
I know.

But the usual Freelander check is " check yu gotta VCU and prop".
People need to be more circumspect. Its not Bells fault, but I am sure there will be some unscrupulous peeps passing them of as 4wd. I wonder how you can tell by looking at it on or off the car?
 
I didn't recon my IRD as 2WD to be fraudulent - OK maybe its a bit of a dodge to get it through its WOF/MOT, but not fraudulent in the sense of selling on the vehicle as a 4WD.

Not only is it a lot cheaper than a 4WD unit, you also don't have to buy a VCU. So installing 1 of these is a lot cheaper than rebuilding to 4WD. It also leaves the setup very close to standard - so if you are worried about things like engine vibration/movement etc they are better than a blanking plate. Plus they'll get through a WOF/NCT/MOT in places where the original transmission is required. Over here it'll cost about $500 (£250) to put a Freelander through 'certification' if you remove the props.

So there are genuine reasons for using one of these - but I agree, there's also that not so genuine reason to pass on a 2WD as 4WD.

I would rather see one of these on a 2WD Freelander than a blanking plate. At least you know all the other stuff that may have been damaged is reconditioned. Plus of course if its just had the props removed, you've got that issue plus you've still probably got broken crown/pinion teeth that could jam and blow the IRD casing apart and take out other bits along the way.

Also, don't forget most people own Freelanders as their family car. They're not interested in taking it off road but like the idea that its a bit safer than a 2WD in winter and they can be a bit less stressed parking in a field at the car-boot. If they're transmission blows up, they just want to get their family wagon back on the road with as little expense as possible - and are quite happy to trade those benefits for removing the chance of the same thing happening !
 
I see your point about the price, but that really applies to the more 'honest' blanking plate form. Most people round here use their FLs in 2wd in the summer, and experience no problems with the props removed - in fact, they report better fuel economy and more nippy, car-like performance.

I wasn't aware that the WOF required original transmission, but isn't presenting it as a 4wd 'shell' a bit of a dodge? It's not the original transmission. Over here, in the relatively litigious UK, if you had an serious accident and that mod was found by forensics, whether or not it had anything to do with the smash, you could be in for trouble. Hence my point.

In the spirit of discussion, most of your points relate to the benefits of 2wd-only, which I don't dispute. I understand why you did the mod, as every country has silly rules that need to be got around so that one can get on with life. Here in the UK, you can pass MoT with no props, as I'm sure you know. I would do the same as you in your neck of the woods.

Finally, I can't see any engineering advantage to this product - why would you want the extra rotational inertia of the heavy props and VCU for nothing, wearing out the rear diff? The presence of this product on the market means even experienced Freelanderers can be duped because, after all, who brings their trolley jack to view a car?

I'm a little disappointed that Bell offer this, and would be interested to hear from anyone connected with them viewing this thread.
 
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True in England with MOTs the Props are not part of the test as long as you inform the insurance company as a MOD then you are covered. Just curious in having this on sale surely this will be classed as a modification anyway and must be declared when selling.
 
I'm sure one day it'll be in the UK MOT - like not being able to remove cats anymore. That will be the day @austen books his flash summer holidays. In fact, he's probably been lobbying his MP for years about it :)

A blanking plate is more obvious, but not necessarily more honest. Other than whipping off the pinion and replacing it with a plate, what other damage is there inside the IRD? But of course all the bearings were replaced at the time and/or there was no other damage and/or it was put on to improve fuel economy.

Most people who come on here in tears that the Freelander they bought is only 2WD - didn't even check to see if it had props on when they bought it and only realise when they do eventually look under to find it missing! So why go to the expense of buying one of these units, when a £5 blanking plate will fool 90% of punters!

I can't recall anyone posting on the forum that they have been fooled by one of these units.

If you do want to leave the props on and make it 2WD - it would be cheaper just to remove the pinion gear in your own IRD anyway. With out the stress of 4WD, I'm sure knackered bearings would last a while and definitely long enough for them to get it home once they've parted with their hard earned.

I think Bells have been offering these units for a long time. One of the reasons why they offer it may be because other people are offering them anyway.

I do agree it can be abused easily - but I don't think any more people will be ripped off than would have been if it were not available.
 
I don't mind Bell selling these units myself as I'd always check that the VCU is doing something when test driving Freelander. I always take a trolley jack and piece of carpet to look underneath anyway. It's easy enough to feel the VCU braking effect on a test drive too.
The problem can arise when a vehicle is sold as a 4 wheel but it has one of these 2WD IRDs fitted. The old sales pitch "props removed for better MPG" it no longer needed. Obviously those in the know are aware that there's little MPG gain from prop removal. We'll just have to check new purchases more carefully from now on.
 
So the question is ............... what would it cost to convert one of these to 4WD ???

if its just the pinion it could be a good deal ?????
 
digby said:
So the question is ............... what would it cost to convert one of these to 4WD ???

if its just the pinion it could be a good deal ?????
Click to expand...
The pinion is still there - Bell remove the 'guts' behind it.

GG, I'm not getting at you - in your jurisdiction area you've done what you have to do to to get on in life, and I applaud that. As I say, I probably would have done the same. My views come from a UK perspective.

I s'pose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, then: I disapprove of this product and can't see a need for using it as opposed to just removing the props +/- fitting a blanking plate, at least in the UK. Even Bell's description says it gives 'the appearance from underneath the car that [the] car is still running in 4wd'. No engineering advantages cited, even from transmission engineers. For who's benefit? Yours? No, you know it isn't 4wd. MoT man? He doesn't care. Prospective buyer? Hmm...

I'm a great believer in 'caveat emptor', buyer beware. I think it's stretching this principle a little when a company offers a sham setup like this that would fool even an experienced, observant buyer. I bet this would fool a pre-purchase vehicle inspection, such as the AA offer. Many non-mechanically minded people rely on these. I don't think that it should be offered just because others offer it - reputable companies should rise above such things and, in the long run, they should benefit from that honesty.

Here's a story for you - a mate of mine once bought a FL from an auction. Knowing the usual tricks, he popped underneath beforehand and checked for the prop. It was there. When he got it home, he jacked it up only to discover that the prop ends were disconnected from the pinions and were slung there with bits of fencing wire.

Should he have checked more closely? Yes. Should the seller have bodged the prop like that? No. It takes all sorts to make a world, and buying used cars from those allsorts can be a minefield. I just can't see it's right that a company is offering, effectively, a neatly-presented version of this bodged FL.
 
digby said:
So the question is ............... what would it cost to convert one of these to 4WD ???

if its just the pinion it could be a good deal ?????
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the pinion supplied in this 2WD IRD would be likely be a damaged one. These would be no use to Bell so why not use then instead of buy in blanking plates. If i was going make "bodged" IRDs, I'd use what I had access to. The condition of the pinion teath is irrelevant, provided the bearings are ok.
I guess making a 2WD IRD into a 4WD would require the fitment of a new crown wheel with matched pinion.
 
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guineafowl21 said:
The pinion is still there - Bell remove the 'guts' behind it.

GG, I'm not getting at you - in your jurisdiction area you've done what you have to do to to get on in life, and I applaud that. As I say, I probably would have done the same. My views come from a UK perspective.

I s'pose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, then: I disapprove of this product and can't see a need for using it as opposed to just removing the props +/- fitting a blanking plate, at least in the UK. Even Bell's description says it gives 'the appearance from underneath the car that [the] car is still running in 4wd'. No engineering advantages cited, even from transmission engineers. For who's benefit? Yours? No.
It takes all sorts to make a world, and buying used cars from those allsorts can be a minefield. I just can't see it's right that a company is offering, effectively, a neatly-presented version of this bodged FL.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with this ^^^^
 
blue beasty said:
This is plainly a product designed to deceive and will be a godsend to those wanting to get shot of a dodgy motor.

If Bell aren't to blame I'm not sure who is?
Click to expand...
Let's put this another way. Here's my imaginary 'new business':

Land Rover Village VCU recon.

'In addition to our VCU recon service, we now offer a "VCU recon Lite". This is for customers who want a recon VCU but don't want to pay VCU recon prices. Send us your failed VCU and we will cut it open, pull out the guts (plates and fluid) and weld it back together. A final pretty coat of paint and you can refit a VCU that will give your vehicle the appearance of a 4wd Freelander with recon VCU but that is actually 2WD with no such thing.'

Land Rover Village Legal Services

'Sold a car with our VCU Lite as 4wd but had the seller come back with mis-selling claims? We can help you, with such arguments as:

  • You saw it. You bought it. Buyer beware, bitch. Where's your trolley jack?
  • Many other companies offer the same service, so, what are you gonna do?
  • This has been on the market for ages. So it's legitimate.
  • You are the first person to come up with this, so you must be wrong. QED.
 
Scheisse - there's no company actually called Land Rover Village, is there? If so, apologies - this has nothing to do with your business.
 
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