Beware Keyless Entry

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gstuart said:
i would assume they are on a shipping container within hours and alas it’s actually catching them in the act

i like the idea of bait cars

if they upgraded there security it would then at least slow thieves down, i know i wouldn’t ever buy a keyless car unless it had one of these boxes fitted and a tracker as a bare minimum

may i ask is there the same issue with keyless cars in the states plse
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The thing is those boxes prevent the owner from being able to use the keyless device themselves.

and yes as the same systems are hear also
 
Thor1950 said:
The thing is those boxes prevent the owner from being able to use the keyless device themselves.

and yes as the same systems are hear also
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the owner can carry on using as normal, it stops any other outside signal trying to hack the fob

 
Gary this is what was said from manufacture in your link.
With the unit installed the Keyless Vehicle module simply and completely dissapears. There can no longer be communication by any equipment for any reason, including a simple presence detect by Land Rovers own SDD Diagnostic equipment'
This part seems to indicate the key won't even work......... no longer be communication by any equipment for any reason
 
Thor1950 said:
Gary this is what was said from manufacture in your link.
With the unit installed the Keyless Vehicle module simply and completely dissapears. There can no longer be communication by any equipment for any reason, including a simple presence detect by Land Rovers own SDD Diagnostic equipment'
This part seems to indicate the key won't even work......... no longer be communication by any equipment for any reason
Click to expand...

as the keyless fob constantly transmits this is what the thieves copy and program a new fob , it only allows the correct key to start the car as that’s already been programmed

i agree it doesn’t make it very clear, this is what i’ve been told by other discovery owners who have these boxes fitted
 
Why do peeps think it's LR's fault? LR produce a vehicle which complies to their security requirements. Someone comes along with a brick and smashes the window, releases the handbrake and pulls it onto a truck to carry it away. Not much different to someone coming along with a brick, smashing the window and plugging in a device to make their own key. They then drive it away. The later will always be a problem as unscrupulous diagnostic kit peeps have gone out of their way to develop tools to do this. They have done so to make money despite the fact they know their kit has gone too far and is used by thieves. Programming yer own key without another working one... changing the identity of the vehicle including vin number... the list is endless. The security device linked to by gstuart will only protect vehicles when they're on their own. It won't give them full protection of being picked up and taken away. Everyone knows the easiest way to nick a car is to do so when the owner is there. Ask them for the keys.
 
Hippo said:
Why do peeps think it's LR's fault? LR produce a vehicle which complies to their security requirements. Someone comes along with a brick and smashes the window, releases the handbrake and pulls it onto a truck to carry it away. Not much different to someone coming along with a brick, smashing the window and plugging in a device to make their own key. They then drive it away. The later will always be a problem as unscrupulous diagnostic kit peeps have gone out of their way to develop tools to do this. They have done so to make money despite the fact they know their kit has gone too far and is used by thieves. Programming yer own key without another working one... changing the identity of the vehicle including vin number... the list is endless. The security device linked to by gstuart will only protect vehicles when they're on their own. It won't give them full protection of being picked up and taken away. Everyone knows the easiest way to nick a car is to do so when the owner is there. Ask them for the keys.
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What a load of bollocks, they've designed a rubbish system that is insecure in times when tech should be good enough to be secure. If you banked at Barclays or wherever and someone had a black box that opened the vaults and took all your money, wouldn't you blame Barclays? or just say "oh well, that's thieves for ya".
 
Rattlegun said:
What a load of bollocks, they've designed a rubbish system that is insecure in times when tech should be good enough to be secure. If you banked at Barclays or wherever and someone had a black box that opened the vaults and took all your money, wouldn't you blame Barclays? or just say "oh well, that's thieves for ya".
Click to expand...
You either don't understand technology or refuse to take a logical approch to the situation. LR manufacture the vehicle. They have to make it ODBii compliant. They also provide their dealerships with diagnostic kit which works through said port. It's an open technology and a formal requirement they must follow. LR don't sell or make available kit to anyone which allows them to copy or create keys. Therefore the system is secure. You have to go to one of LR's main dealers for a key. This is how it worked years ago.

LR want their vehicles to be secure. This is a fact. It's nonsense to think anything different. Third party diagnostic kit creators don't give a toss about this. Their market is based around bypassing all of this in the interest of selling diagnostic kit for profit. The more it can do the more they can sell.

Third party companies make their own diagnostic kit. They choose to give access to the user to allow them to create and copy keys themselves. Is this LR's fault? No. How can LR stop this? They can't unless they block additionals keys being created - example below. Are the third party diagnostic suppliers at fault? Yes, of course they are. They're the ones allowing the average person access to make thier own keys. If it were not for their kit doing this, YOU wouldn't be able to produce your own key. Would YOU be able to gain access to the ODBii port and work out what instructions are needed to sync a key to the car? No.

There's 2 problems here. The first is manufacturers who mistakenly left bluetooth or wifi access open in such a way someone could access the vehcile security system without physically connecting to the car. This is wrong and manufacturers are correcting this. Some of it has probably only been done due to bad publicity. The second issue is people being able to buy a device and program keys themselves. If the manufacturers were to produce a one time programmable conceeled device which wouldn't allow anything other than the original 2 keys to be programmed to the vehicle... peeps would moan about cost. The only solution ere is to make it so difficult to do... the only option would be a new set of onboard computers + keys. Embed the key coding physically in the ECU processor itself and burn out for write protection. Hence a new processor chip would be required. If you have a betterer idea let us know.

Yer eggsample of a bank vault being opened isn't comparative to the issue of being able to create yer own keys for a vehicle. Bank vaults don't have diagnostic ports to connect diagnostic kit too.
 
Hippo said:
You either don't understand technology or refuse to take a logical approch to the situation. LR manufacture the vehicle. They have to make it ODBii compliant. They also provide their dealerships with diagnostic kit which works through said port. It's an open technology and a formal requirement they must follow. LR don't sell or make available kit to anyone which allows them to copy or create keys. Therefore the system is secure. You have to go to one of LR's main dealers for a key. This is how it worked years ago.

LR want their vehicles to be secure. This is a fact. It's nonsense to think anything different. Third party diagnostic kit creators don't give a toss about this. Their market is based around bypassing all of this in the interest of selling diagnostic kit for profit. The more it can do the more they can sell.

Third party companies make their own diagnostic kit. They choose to give access to the user to allow them to create and copy keys themselves. Is this LR's fault? No. How can LR stop this? They can't unless they block additionals keys being created - example below. Are the third party diagnostic suppliers at fault? Yes, of course they are. They're the ones allowing the average person access to make thier own keys. If it were not for their kit doing this, YOU wouldn't be able to produce your own key. Would YOU be able to gain access to the ODBii port and work out what instructions are needed to sync a key to the car? No.

There's 2 problems here. The first is manufacturers who mistakenly left bluetooth or wifi access open in such a way someone could access the vehcile security system without physically connecting to the car. This is wrong and manufacturers are correcting this. Some of it has probably only been done due to bad publicity. The second issue is people being able to buy a device and program keys themselves. If the manufacturers were to produce a one time programmable conceeled device which wouldn't allow anything other than the original 2 keys to be programmed to the vehicle... peeps would moan about cost. The only solution ere is to make it so difficult to do... the only option would be a new set of onboard computers + keys. Embed the key coding physically in the ECU processor itself and burn out for write protection. Hence a new processor chip would be required. If you have a betterer idea let us know.

Yer eggsample of a bank vault being opened isn't comparative to the issue of being able to create yer own keys for a vehicle. Bank vaults don't have diagnostic ports to connect diagnostic kit too.
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Here to get a new key, is a dealer only with proof of ownership, proof of insurance, and a picture ID.
 
I’m not sure why the manufacturers haven’t implemented two factor authentication, a quick google suggests that people have been providing it as an aftermarket solution for years.

It’s pretty simple and means that in addition to having cloned the key or having a repeater for the wireless fob, you would also need to enter a pin, use a fingerprint reader, have a paired phone on your or even voice recognition could work.

I guess it’s a result of the laziness of modern life, too much hassle to have the wireless fob AND have to enter a pin. Any other objection can be easily overcome such as temporary authentication when it’s at the repair shop or valet mode etc. I remember using a Pug 406 back in the late 90’s (I think) which required a pin code in addition to the regular key...
 
FreddieA said:
I’m not sure why the manufacturers haven’t implemented two factor authentication, a quick google suggests that people have been providing it as an aftermarket solution for years.

It’s pretty simple and means that in addition to having cloned the key or having a repeater for the wireless fob, you would also need to enter a pin, use a fingerprint reader, have a paired phone on your or even voice recognition could work.

I guess it’s a result of the laziness of modern life, too much hassle to have the wireless fob AND have to enter a pin. Any other objection can be easily overcome such as temporary authentication when it’s at the repair shop or valet mode etc. I remember using a Pug 406 back in the late 90’s (I think) which required a pin code in addition to the regular key...
Click to expand...
I've seen this on a car about 20 years ago.Think it was a Renault people carrier. It would work as long as the code couldn't be bypassed by plugging in a tool into the diag port. Some cars like the FL2 already have a similar feature where it can be put into valet mode via a code put in the display (on some models). The boot won't open when this happens. Same option could stop the engine starting.
 
I had my 2015 discovery HSE lux stolen on Jan 24th, my work horse, a great car, but because I work away a lot never really new how easy it is for thieves to nick them, I have the whole theft on cctv, 8 minutes, so they had a little difficulty with mine, apparently they can be stolen in less then 2 minutes, I do however feel Landrover could at least release a warning letter to owners and advise appropriate actions, faraday bag or turning off keyless, they could even sell secondary anti theft equipment, had I known I would have purchased some anti deterrent, a tad disappointed, I worked hard to afford such a car, and now it’s gone, I just hope more people use social media to advertise how easy they can be nicked, apparently 3 Range Rovers, 2 Discovery’s, mine included were nicked in Jan/Feb in north east area.
 
I want to invent a device that can set off a pre recorded message through the sound system, with a message to warn thieves the car will self destruct, locking all doors and venting an acrid smell through the vents, the car will only unlock when within 500m of the home address. Where the engine will stop working and the doors will open, activating a return message on the owners smart phone. Alternatively the car will slowly self destruct.
 
Total2014 said:
I want to invent a device that can set off a pre recorded message through the sound system, with a message to warn thieves the car will self destruct, locking all doors and venting an acrid smell through the vents, the car will only unlock when within 500m of the home address. Where the engine will stop working and the doors will open, activating a return message on the owners smart phone. Alternatively the car will slowly self destruct.
Click to expand...

Get a tracker system that will alert you by mobile text or phone when your vehicle is moved ...
 
Total2014 said:
I want to invent a device that can set off a pre recorded message through the sound system, with a message to warn thieves the car will self destruct, locking all doors and venting an acrid smell through the vents, the car will only unlock when within 500m of the home address. Where the engine will stop working and the doors will open, activating a return message on the owners smart phone. Alternatively the car will slowly self destruct.
Click to expand...
Or buy 2 faraday pouches oft eBay for less than a fiver delivered. You know, what ever.
 
The Fiat Ulysse people carrier used to have a pin code keypad, code had to be entered before the ignition was turned on otherwise it wouldn't start. Took me about 2 minutes to bypass it using instructions off the net when my ex wife's keypad failed. I think whatever security measures firms come up with someone somewhere will always find a way round it, especially as we rely more and more on 'smart' electronics.
 
Landy_DBolt.JPG
I've been thinking of buying one of these, but for the life of me, can't think where to install it...;)
 
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