Best soft roader for snow

Colonel wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> So I'd still be interested to hear which of my original three (Rav4,
>> Freelander or X-trail) would be best in the snow. Somebody suggested
>> X-trail but didn't explain why. Since it is the only one of the
>> three with a reactive style system (i.e. mainly FWD until some
>> slippage is detected) I would have expected it to be the worst.
>> Surely it is best to prevent wheels spinning in the snow rather than
>> waiting until they do (and start digging themselves in) before
>> transferring power to the rear.
>>
>> I'm also not clear on the compromises that we would have to make for
>> the rest of the year if we did go down the soft-roader route.
>> Putting a RAV4 D-4D (for example) up against our current Mazda 323,
>> the RAV has 10mpg better fuel economy, 20,000 mile as opposed to
>> 9,000 mile service intervals and lower overall service costs over
>> three years (and 60,000 miles). Plus the engine should last longer.
>> So what do we have to loose?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
> For Gods sake you do not need to convince this group of the need for
> a 4x4. Practicably nobody need a 4x4. Any more than they need Lotus
> Elise.
>
Complete rubbish.

>
> There is no real difference between any softroader. Go out and test
> drive one or two of the modals you like the look of. In normal
> conditions none of them will perform or handle as well as your Mazda.
> If after driving them around you feel you can live with the 4x4
> experience. Go buy the one you like the most and enjoy it.
>
Agreed.
>
>
> Personally I would not swap my TD5 Disco for any "normal" car.
>


--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

As all this snow is "new" to this country why not take a look at what is
done in places where this is a more common occurarnce.
Most of the difference can be made by tyre choice and driving style.
Keep your current car and get a set of steel wheels with snow tyres for
a lot less that 20K.

If the main problem is ground clearence then it may be better to get a
soft roader or similar.
As to having a "proper" 4x4as a second car it wont sit there for 51
weeks of the year, it may sit there for 5 dqys a week but the bug will
take you and it will be used as the weekend mota.

my 2p
trev


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

As all this snow is "new" to this country why not take a look at what is
done in places where this is a more common occurarnce.
Most of the difference can be made by tyre choice and driving style.
Keep your current car and get a set of steel wheels with snow tyres for
a lot less that 20K.

If the main problem is ground clearence then it may be better to get a
soft roader or similar.
As to having a "proper" 4x4as a second car it wont sit there for 51
weeks of the year, it may sit there for 5 dqys a week but the bug will
take you and it will be used as the weekend mota.

my 2p
trev


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Keep your money in the bank and hire a chopper when the snow looks bad
NGB

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:55:29 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm looking for advice on the best soft roader for snowy roads. We are about
>to replace our trusty Mazda 323 and are toying with the idea of an SUV. The
>main reason being that we live in a small village in rural Aberdeenshire and
>for the past six years we have got stuck at least a couple of times a year.
>Only once had to be towed out but I'm getting bored of standing in blizzards
>and digging our way to freedom.
>
>So I want something that will cope with around a foot of snow on the road
>but (since this only happens for a week or two each year) I don't want to
>give up too much road ability. So my wish list is.
>
>1. Price (new) less than £20k
>2. Fuel economy better than 35mpg
>3. Enough space for a family (ideally with enough boot space for a bike)
>4. Not too hard to park
>5. Long service intervals (we do over 20,000 miles a year)
>6. Low service costs
>7. Longevity. I'd aim to keep it for 10 years i.e. > 200,000 miles.
>
>So far the choice seems to be between the Rav4 5 door D-4D, Freelander T4d
>and X-trail Dci
>
>Any thoughts on which of those (or any others that fit my criteria) would be
>best on snow. Don't need any real offroad ability, just don't want to get
>stuck next winter.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Andy

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:32:46 +0000, No Good Boyo wrote:

> Keep your money in the bank and hire a chopper when the snow looks bad
> NGB
>
You wouldn't catch me riding a 1970's Raleigh pushbike in the snow <g>
--
TimW

Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
conditions.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

On 28-Feb-2004, "Colonel" <[email protected]> wrote:

> There is no real difference between any softroader. Go out and test drive
> one or two of the modals you like the look of. In normal conditions none
> of
> them will perform or handle as well as your Mazda. If after driving them
> around you feel you can live with the 4x4 experience. Go buy the one you
> like the most and enjoy it.

Sounds like good advice. I just assumed that since the cars that I'm looking
at use slightly differen 4 wheel drive systems then one of them must be
superior in the snow. But maybe these differences are just advertising hype
so they are all as good (or bad) as each other.

Cheers,

Andy

On 29-Feb-2004, "Trevor Burns" <[email protected]> wrote:

> As all this snow is "new" to this country why not take a look at what is
> done in places where this is a more common occurarnce.
> Most of the difference can be made by tyre choice and driving style.
> Keep your current car and get a set of steel wheels with snow tyres for
> a lot less that 20K.

The problem with the UK (or at least this North East corner of it) is that
we get some snow but never total coverage. Some countries do get far more
snow than us but that's actually easier to deal with. Just stick studded
tyres on. The problem here is that we have to cope with snow covered roads
for a couple of miles then black tarmac for most of the journey, which rules
out using the sort of tyres that can cope with the snow. There is the option
of putting chains on for the bad bit, which we do sometimes. But boy are
they a pain to put on.

A set of winter tyres sounds like a good option, but we've got stuck a few
times in the last week (snow showers on and off from Tuesday to Saturday up
here). Main cause is getting one of the front wheels in a little icy dip.
That wheel just spins and the other one seems to sit there. The only option
is to get out and rock it back and forwards until you get the spinning wheel
out of the dip. The hardpack is slippy enough (especially in the morning
when it's dropped to -12C over night) that I think winter tyres would slip
as well. However, nine times out of ten the rear wheels could get good
traction.

> If the main problem is ground clearence then it may be better to get a
> soft roader or similar.

Yes there are times when ground clearance is an issue. Not as common as the
wheel slipping problem. But on Friday, for example, I needed to get out of
the village before the plough had been round. I put chains on (a real pain)
and traction was great. But I just got bogged down. Guy down the road in his
Shogun Pinin was cruising around quite happily.

Cheers,

Andy

On 2-Mar-2004, Erik-Jan Geniets <[email protected]> wrote:

> Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
> conditions.

Thanks. Sounds encouraging. But aren't open diffs a big problem in slippy
conditions. We seem to get quite a few cases (with our 2WD) when one wheel
spins like mad and the other hardly moves. This is due to the open diff
right? Mind you I guess you would have to be quite unlucky to get one wheel
on each axle slipping.

Cheers,

Andy

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:10:18 +0000 (UTC), Trevor Burns
<[email protected]> wrote:

> As all this snow is "new" to this country why not take a look at what is
> done in places where this is a more common occurarnce.
> Most of the difference can be made by tyre choice and driving style.
> Keep your current car and get a set of steel wheels with snow tyres for
> a lot less that 20K.

How about these...

http://www.spikesspider.com/

has anyone any experience of these on a non 4WD car?

I'm in a very similar position to the OP. We had to abandon the car on
Friday and walk the last mile home all for the sake of the final short
hill being unpassable for us. Not the end of the world but thinking ahead
to next year and not being in the market for a new car something like the
above appeals at first glance.

Colin
--

On 2-Mar-2004, Colin Blackburn <[email protected]> wrote:

> How about these...
>
> http://www.spikesspider.com/
>
> has anyone any experience of these on a non 4WD car?

No experience but they do look interesting. For all the waffle on the web
page they are basically a set of chains, but may well be easier to fit and
remove than standard chains. Ease of fit is actually a major consideration.
We do have a set of basic chains (bought when we lived in Salt Lake City and
used to drive up to Yellowstone in the winter). If you can be bothered to
fit them (lying on the ground and trying to get the links together with
freezing hands) and you get them on tight enough (or they'll fall off) they
do make a huge difference to traction. Provided you have the clearance you
can drive through any snow with them. But they are such a pain to fit (just
to remove a mile down the road) that we almost always get stuck before we
get round to putting them on (and they are almost impossible to fit once you
are stuck). Hence out thoughts turning to AWD. But a set that was simple and
fast to fit and remove and small enough to stick in the boot could well be a
viable alternative to a new car.

Cheers,

Andy

"Erik-Jan Geniets" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
> conditions.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
> http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

Just out of interest, why is a permanent 4wd better than selectable 4wd in
snow conditions? In snow you are guaranteed that the wheels will be allowed
to slip and so you can have 4wd selected all the time.

When conditions thaw out you can select 2WD and get better economy.

Greg Henderson wrote:
> "Erik-Jan Geniets" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
>> conditions.
>> Kind regards,
>> Erik-Jan.
>> http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper
>
> Just out of interest, why is a permanent 4wd better than selectable
> 4wd in snow conditions? In snow you are guaranteed that the wheels
> will be allowed to slip and so you can have 4wd selected all the time.
>
Depends on the type of snow you get - we often get patchy snow with bits iof
tarmac in between - constantly swapping from 2 to 4WD every few miles is a
pain.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On 2-Mar-2004, Erik-Jan Geniets <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
> > conditions.
>
> Thanks. Sounds encouraging. But aren't open diffs a big problem in slippy
> conditions. We seem to get quite a few cases (with our 2WD) when one wheel
> spins like mad and the other hardly moves. This is due to the open diff
> right? Mind you I guess you would have to be quite unlucky to get one
wheel
> on each axle slipping.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy

ride the brakes... this will slow the spinnign wheel and allow the other
wone to gain power from the diff...

On 3-Mar-2004, "rnf2" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ride the brakes... this will slow the spinnign wheel and allow the other
> wone to gain power from the diff...

Ah, clearly time to learn a new trick. Could be hard releasing the clutch,
riding the brakes and pressing the accelerator at the same time, but I guess
it comes with practice.

Cheers,

Andy

([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

>> ride the brakes... this will slow the spinnign wheel and allow the
>> other wone to gain power from the diff...

> Ah, clearly time to learn a new trick. Could be hard releasing the
> clutch, riding the brakes and pressing the accelerator at the same
> time, but I guess it comes with practice.

It's called "heel and toe". Normally used to blip the throttle while
braking and down-changing, on the track and on old cars with little or no
synchrocrunch on the 'box.

Google is your friend.

[email protected] wrote:
>
> On 2-Mar-2004, Erik-Jan Geniets <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
> > conditions.
>
> Thanks. Sounds encouraging. But aren't open diffs a big problem in slippy
> conditions. We seem to get quite a few cases (with our 2WD) when one wheel
> spins like mad and the other hardly moves. This is due to the open diff
> right? Mind you I guess you would have to be quite unlucky to get one wheel
> on each axle slipping.
>
In this case it could be usefull to have an AWD with lockable center
diff (best option) or a T-case which is always locked when engaged.
(E.G. part-time 4WD)
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan
http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

Greg Henderson wrote:
>
> "Erik-Jan Geniets" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Any AWD or permanent 4 WD with open diffs/T-case will do fine in snow
> > conditions.
> > Kind regards,
> > Erik-Jan.
> > http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper
>
> Just out of interest, why is a permanent 4wd better than selectable 4wd in
> snow conditions? In snow you are guaranteed that the wheels will be allowed
> to slip and so you can have 4wd selected all the time.
>
> When conditions thaw out you can select 2WD and get better economy.

On a selectable 4wd, you might lose traction because of the T-case which
is locked. This can cause one of the wheels to spin.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying :
>
> >> ride the brakes... this will slow the spinnign wheel and allow the
> >> other wone to gain power from the diff...
>
> > Ah, clearly time to learn a new trick. Could be hard releasing the
> > clutch, riding the brakes and pressing the accelerator at the same
> > time, but I guess it comes with practice.
>
> It's called "heel and toe". Normally used to blip the throttle while
> braking and down-changing, on the track and on old cars with little or no
> synchrocrunch on the 'box.
>
> Google is your friend.

for the podiatrially challenged... theres also always the park brake....
atmittedly only to the rear wheels.

besides with the Isuzus screw out method of choke, set it in gear and wheels
spinning, with the choke right out... leave the clutch alone and once you
have that foot free from the clutch... use it on the brake...

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:25:49 +1300, "rnf2" <[email protected]> wrote:


->for the podiatrially challenged... theres also always the park brake....
->atmittedly only to the rear wheels.

Unless the handbrake is on the rear prop.................

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net