Bearing rumble on Series III

I have a Series III which has developed loud bearing rumble on overrun.
and I'd like to lay the symptoms before the group.

I shall have to get it fixed... I may have been pushing my luck getting
home.

1: Loud bearing rumble on over-run, lessening during engine braking.

2: Changes with road speed, not engine speed.

3: Not affected by clutch operation or gear selection.

4: No change when transfer box in neutral.

5: Signs of propshaft oilseal failure on rear axle (and chassis and read
tub and all over...).
..

From this, I doubt that it is gearbox or front axle. It may be the
transfer box, but I think the rear axle is more likely the source.

I plan to check the wheel bearings for play, but I'd suppose that I'd
have to drop the rear propshaft and pull the halfshafts before I take it
to a garage.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
front-wheel drive?


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On Monday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Tim Hobbs" wrote:

> What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
> front-wheel drive?

Good point... I haven't got that far yet. I can give it a check,
though if it is back-axle, the transmission of the sound will be a bit
altered.

Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
knees than gravel.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

>Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
>knees than gravel.

My new(ish) drive is about 30 foot of level(ish) concrete. I had part
gravel at the old house and it hurts and gets down your neck and in
your shoes. I also got Mandy's Clio stuck in it once! Dragged it out
backwards, at which point it ran down the hill towards me. Mandy
didn't have the engine running (doh) so no brake servo. I then used
the Landy to pull the rear bumper back out!


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

I recently had a similar problem. A distinctive rumble from the rear
axle, it eventually becomes almost a growl. The problem was a worn
rear diff.

You may also wish to investigate wheel bearings and have a look at the
rear prop shaft U-joints for play although prop problems there will
normally set up a noticable vibration.

I got a garage to give me a second opinion for a £10. I then sourced a
second hand diff from Boxall Land Rovers for £40. It's the most
sensible way to do it. The job is very simple too, just that the unit
is heavy so you may need an extra pair of hands.

Good luck.

On 6 Sep 2004 09:22:26 -0700, [email protected] (Shaun) wrote:

>I recently had a similar problem. A distinctive rumble from the rear
>axle, it eventually becomes almost a growl. The problem was a worn
>rear diff.
>
>You may also wish to investigate wheel bearings and have a look at the
>rear prop shaft U-joints for play although prop problems there will
>normally set up a noticable vibration.
>
>I got a garage to give me a second opinion for a £10. I then sourced a
>second hand diff from Boxall Land Rovers for £40. It's the most
>sensible way to do it. The job is very simple too, just that the unit
>is heavy so you may need an extra pair of hands.
>
>Good luck.

David - just a thought, but I think I may have two Series diffs lying
around. They may have gone in the skip, but I'll check on my way out
of the office tonight. They look in good nick, so might be of use to
you. Free to a good home....

Cheers

Tim
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

"David G. Bell" wrote:
>
> Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> knees than gravel.

Ay-men to that.

--

Rich

Series 2a
RR 4.6
V8 trialler
dog, wife, kids, whatever

David G. Bell wrote:

> Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> knees than gravel.

And indoor concrete is more comfortable than outdoor concrete.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

>
>David - just a thought, but I think I may have two Series diffs lying
>around. They may have gone in the skip, but I'll check on my way out
>of the office tonight. They look in good nick, so might be of use to
>you. Free to a good home....
>
>Cheers
>
>Tim

Nope, they're gone...

Sorry
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

David G. Bell wrote:

> On Monday, in article
> <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "Tim Hobbs" wrote:
>
>> What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
>> front-wheel drive?
>
> Good point... I haven't got that far yet. I can give it a check,
> though if it is back-axle, the transmission of the sound will be a bit
> altered.
>
> Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> knees than gravel.
>
Maybe easier to remove the half shafts - this will leave the sound
transmission the same - if the diff is really on its last legs maybe both
could be an idea, so that not only is it not under load, but not turning.
Note that the comments about an easy to change diff do not apply to a 109,
as it will have a Salisbury axle.

On the other hand, if there is no oil left in it, just putting some oil in
may be all that is needed to get to a mechanic.
JD

I have the same problem..
I just fitted new rear propshaft with new UJs and the noise is still there.
Where can i find the lockrite rear diffs? i cant find a place that sells
them anywhere. or an alternative that is not ARB money.


--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jason.hall8/Sites.html
http://groups.msn.com/NewarkLandroverClub
"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> >David - just a thought, but I think I may have two Series diffs lying
> >around. They may have gone in the skip, but I'll check on my way out
> >of the office tonight. They look in good nick, so might be of use to
> >you. Free to a good home....
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Tim
>
> Nope, they're gone...
>
> Sorry
> --
>
> Tim Hobbs
>
> '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
> '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
> '03 Volvo V70
>
> My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
> Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
> Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

Jason Hall wrote:

> I have the same problem..
> I just fitted new rear propshaft with new UJs and the noise is still there.
> Where can i find the lockrite rear diffs? i cant find a place that sells
> them anywhere. or an alternative that is not ARB money.

If you're looking at a Lockrite put it in the front diff, then when
you're in 2WD with the FWH disengaged it's not doing anything, otherwise
they are really annoying rattling away when you corner.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 06:36:35 +1000, in article
<[email protected]> [email protected] "JD" wrote:

> David G. Bell wrote:
>
> > On Monday, in article
> > <[email protected]>
> > [email protected] "Tim Hobbs" wrote:
> >
> >> What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
> >> front-wheel drive?
> >
> > Good point... I haven't got that far yet. I can give it a check,
> > though if it is back-axle, the transmission of the sound will be a bit
> > altered.
> >
> > Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> > knees than gravel.
> >
> Maybe easier to remove the half shafts - this will leave the sound
> transmission the same - if the diff is really on its last legs maybe both
> could be an idea, so that not only is it not under load, but not turning.
> Note that the comments about an easy to change diff do not apply to a 109,
> as it will have a Salisbury axle.
>
> On the other hand, if there is no oil left in it, just putting some oil in
> may be all that is needed to get to a mechanic.
> JD

Oil has made a difference to the sound, so I'm now pretty sure of where
the problem is.

Yes, it's an 88, so it doesn't have the Salisbury axle problem. But I
recall some mention of halfshaft splines... Or is that at the wheel
end? And it's a Lightweight...

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "JD" wrote:

> David G. Bell wrote:
>
> > On Monday, in article
> > <[email protected]>
> > [email protected] "Tim Hobbs" wrote:
> >
> >> What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
> >> front-wheel drive?
> >
> > Good point... I haven't got that far yet. I can give it a check,
> > though if it is back-axle, the transmission of the sound will be a bit
> > altered.
> >
> > Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> > knees than gravel.
> >
> Maybe easier to remove the half shafts - this will leave the sound
> transmission the same - if the diff is really on its last legs maybe both
> could be an idea, so that not only is it not under load, but not turning.
> Note that the comments about an easy to change diff do not apply to a 109,
> as it will have a Salisbury axle.
>
> On the other hand, if there is no oil left in it, just putting some oil in
> may be all that is needed to get to a mechanic.

As I mentioned elsethread, topping up the oil has made a difference to
the noise, so I'm fairly confident of where the problem is.

It occurs to me that this may be the time to fit 3.54 diffs. I'd been
thinking of switching to 7.50 tyres (needs new wheels, but new tyres are
looming anyway).

If I have 10-spline halfshafts the extra cost doesn't seem a great deal,
for one diff. But, of course, I shall need two. And I don't have the
resources for a DIY job.

Another passing thought -- is it OK to use the RR-type swivel grease on
a Series III front axle?

Anyway, are there any web sites out there with a complete account of a
diff-change?
)

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

>
> As I mentioned elsethread, topping up the oil has made a difference to
> the noise, so I'm fairly confident of where the problem is.
>
> It occurs to me that this may be the time to fit 3.54 diffs. I'd been
> thinking of switching to 7.50 tyres (needs new wheels, but new tyres are
> looming anyway).
>
> If I have 10-spline halfshafts the extra cost doesn't seem a great deal,
> for one diff. But, of course, I shall need two. And I don't have the
> resources for a DIY job.
>
> Another passing thought -- is it OK to use the RR-type swivel grease on
> a Series III front axle?
>
> Anyway, are there any web sites out there with a complete account of a
> diff-change?
> )
>
> --
> David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

The rear diff is a piece of p*ss
Take the four bolts off the propshaft
remove the halfshafts and undo the ring of
bolts on diff
lift out diff
at this point you then remember to drain the oil first
as it runs down your arms and all over the drive/garage
floor
and as it says in the HBOL refitting is the reverse of
removal

the fronts are more difficult as removing the halfshafts
is difficult
2 ways of doing it either strip front swivels and remove
the half shafts that way -or-
undo the six bolts holding the swivel balls to the axle
and ease the whole wheel hub swivel in one unit
it doesn't need to come out far only about 6 inch
BUT make sure you don't leave the weight of the wheels
and hubs etc hanging on the halfshaft
also with this method check the nuts and bolts where the
swivels bolt on when I did mine the bolts were built up with
corrosion they split the very worn nuts

don't forget for both front and rear clean up the mating
surfaces properly and fill with oil recheck after a week
or so of driving
HTH

Andy
--
SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big it's mean it's really really green

On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Andy.Smalley" wrote:

> The rear diff is a piece of p*ss
> Take the four bolts off the propshaft
> remove the halfshafts and undo the ring of
> bolts on diff
> lift out diff
> at this point you then remember to drain the oil first
> as it runs down your arms and all over the drive/garage
> floor
> and as it says in the HBOL refitting is the reverse of
> removal

I found a copy of the workshop manual on my hard drive.

The HBOL quotes the LR workshop manual on refitting.

As you say, front half-shafts will be tricky.

The way my back is, I'm not sure I want to try.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "David G. Bell" wrote:

> On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "JD" wrote:
>
> > David G. Bell wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, in article
> > > <[email protected]>
> > > [email protected] "Tim Hobbs" wrote:
> > >
> > >> What happens if you drop the rear prop off and take it for a drive in
> > >> front-wheel drive?
> > >
> > > Good point... I haven't got that far yet. I can give it a check,
> > > though if it is back-axle, the transmission of the sound will be a bit
> > > altered.
> > >
> > > Note to Land Rover owning house purchasers, concrete is easier on the
> > > knees than gravel.
> > >
> > Maybe easier to remove the half shafts - this will leave the sound
> > transmission the same - if the diff is really on its last legs maybe both
> > could be an idea, so that not only is it not under load, but not turning.
> > Note that the comments about an easy to change diff do not apply to a 109,
> > as it will have a Salisbury axle.
> >
> > On the other hand, if there is no oil left in it, just putting some oil in
> > may be all that is needed to get to a mechanic.
>
> As I mentioned elsethread, topping up the oil has made a difference to
> the noise, so I'm fairly confident of where the problem is.
>
> It occurs to me that this may be the time to fit 3.54 diffs. I'd been
> thinking of switching to 7.50 tyres (needs new wheels, but new tyres are
> looming anyway).
>
> If I have 10-spline halfshafts the extra cost doesn't seem a great deal,
> for one diff. But, of course, I shall need two. And I don't have the
> resources for a DIY job.
>
> Another passing thought -- is it OK to use the RR-type swivel grease on
> a Series III front axle?

Finally got the halfshafts out after tea, and promptly baffled my father
by driving off, sans halfshafts, to see if the noise was different.

It was.

So I reckon that makes it pretty definite.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

David G. Bell wrote:

> It occurs to me that this may be the time to fit 3.54 diffs. I'd been
> thinking of switching to 7.50 tyres (needs new wheels, but new tyres are
> looming anyway).

3.54 diffs are a bit tall really and seriously compromise the off road
ability. Try and get some 4.1 diff heads ex Rover 90, P5 etc - they
work well with 7.50x16 tyres.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:11:17 +0100 (BST), in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "David G. Bell" wrote:

> Oil has made a difference to the sound, so I'm now pretty sure of where
> the problem is.

Current situation -- with the prop-shaft off and half-shafts out, it's
clear that part of the problem is the pinion bearings. I've obtained a
very good second-hand diff from Paddocks, and it's just too heavy a lump
for me to handle, so the Lightweight is booked into a local garage.

In passing, I wonder if anyone saying it's an easy DIY job have realised
what a difference leaf springs make to the clearance for crawling
underneath.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:37:32 +0100 (BST), [email protected]
("David G. Bell") wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:11:17 +0100 (BST), in article
> <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "David G. Bell" wrote:
>
>> Oil has made a difference to the sound, so I'm now pretty sure of where
>> the problem is.
>
>Current situation -- with the prop-shaft off and half-shafts out, it's
>clear that part of the problem is the pinion bearings. I've obtained a
>very good second-hand diff from Paddocks, and it's just too heavy a lump
>for me to handle, so the Lightweight is booked into a local garage.
>
>In passing, I wonder if anyone saying it's an easy DIY job have realised
>what a difference leaf springs make to the clearance for crawling
>underneath.

The only time I've removed a diff was from an axle alone, no vehicle.
The diff is a substantial lump, and without the truck on a ramp or
high stands it would be a bugger to lift I don't doubt.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com