AT or MT?

G-P · Feb 7, 2018

Hi All,

The tyres on my 90 are still the originals and although the tread is fine they are starting to perish, so the question is what to go for next?

I have already decided to go up to 265/75, mainly because they look better and they don’t seem to effect performance on or off road much, but I do keep going round in circles over AT or MT.

I am in the fortunate position that the Defender is a toy and I don’t need to worry about using it daily. I do want to use it for green lanning, transport for shooting season and the odd pay and play day.

So do i go with AT or straight to MT?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks,

Discokids · Feb 7, 2018

G-P said:
but I do keep going round in circles

This isn't the joke thread

What tyres are we talking about? Bfg? General? Insa?

Scooby22 · Feb 7, 2018

G-P said:
Hi All,

The tyres on my 90 are still the originals and although the tread is fine they are starting to perish, so the question is what to go for next?

I have already decided to go up to 265/75, mainly because they look better and they don’t seem to effect performance on or off road much, but I do keep going round in circles over AT or MT.

I am in the fortunate position that the Defender is a toy and I don’t need to worry about using it daily. I do want to use it for green lanning, transport for shooting season and the odd pay and play day.

So do i go with AT or straight to MT?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks,

My original general grabber tyres lasted me 13 years and like yours they still had loads of tread but were starting to crack and valve rubbers had perished, I was so pleased with the old ones I replaced like for like from here: https://www.4site4x4tyres.co.uk/tyre-search/details/3/general-grabber-tr-23585r16
The tyres were delivered to my local tyre fitters and I paid the tyre fitter for them after fitting, the price included the cost of fitting as well, no money having to be sent online.
Also, I use my Defender for the same things as you but also use it if its only me going anywhere, usually down to my allotment to escape to my shed, the grabbers are a great all round tyre and are not noisy on the road

rob1miles · Feb 7, 2018

I think the clue is in the name: All Terrain for all terrains or Mud Terrain for muddy terrain. Which do you drive on most often?

garethdwatkins · Feb 7, 2018

It really depends on your usage.. I had AT tyres for a long time... BFG Tracedge, and All Terrains... which are/were very good tyres. But if like me you go, (even once or twice a year), into a muddy or slippery place.. (River fishing in my case) then AT's will be very quickly inadequate... It only takes one 2 mile hike and a few sov's bunged to a farmer with a tractor, to realise you should have fitted MT's...
If it's not a daily drive (or even if.. mine is) the new generation of MT tyres are very very good.. pretty silent on road and no worse in the wet than AT's..
Forget remoulds.. Insa's are terrible tyres.... (had 2 sets coz cheap.. never could balance and wore out in a year..)
Best I found at a good price on t' interweb were Toyo Open country MT... This is what I'll be fitting to my bus soon... Great off road.. never ever go bogged, even once.. pretyy civilised on road.. (certainly no worse than the BFG AT's...) and a fait bit cheaper... around 100€ a corner here.. so not much more than a remould..
However if you do Overland stuff, desert, trails and dry rocky lanes.. AT's especially the BFG's are king.. brilliant hard wearing tyres...
You pays your money ..... !!!

dag019 · Feb 7, 2018

I have just fitted my second set of BFG AT's. Managed to get some remaindered stock of the old tread pattern so was a like for like swap. The previous set lasted for nearly 10 years, 120k miles, and still had 4-6mm of tread on when I sold them. (only replaced as I went to Morocco). If you do not do much road work and it is not your only vehicle I would probably go for muds. Modern ones are very quite compared to what they used to be like and the only draw back of them in the UK is if you do lots of road miles. As said above if you are ding rock and dessert trails you are better with AT's.

G-P said:
I do want to use it for green lanning, transport for shooting season and the odd pay and play day.

If this is your intended usage you should be able to do this on either AT's or MT's. The only real difference is how far around a p&p site you would get. If you are going to get stuck green laning on AT's you should not be driving the lane in those conditions.

garethdwatkins said:
It only takes one 2 mile hike and a few sov's bunged to a farmer with a tractor, to realise you should have fitted MT's...

That is a very good point, it only takes one experience like that to re-evaluate things, but after my one I fitted a winch rather than mud tyres. I do too much road mileage to fit anything more extreme.

callisr · Feb 7, 2018

I have BFG M/T and they are great tyres. I don’t go off road that often but when I do, I want the best chance of not getting stuck. I use my 90 daily and they aren’t particularly noisy and road manners are perfectly fine. Plus, at the end of the day, they look soooo much better than any all terrain pattern!

mikescuba · Feb 7, 2018

General Grabber AT2's which are OK. I don't think they are particularly good in the snow, they don't have as good a grip as my car with Michelin Alpine snow tires. They are OK in straight line pulling, but loose it on cornering. They work fine crossing my field even in the snow but I feel they are on there limit. I have been caught out in the mud though twice. Very good on the road . I'm thinking next time I change I think I will go for something like these. http://us.coopertire.com/tires/discoverer-stt-pro.aspx
I often go off roading in the forest here in France where I live and they have never let me down on what you call green lanes. But I wouldn't risk them in soft mud.
The AT2's are lasting very well, it will be age that kills them not tread wear. My thinking is along your lines I think. I would like to have something I feel more confident when going off piste.
Three years ago I went with a group of 4X4's across Morocco. Two vehicles had AT2's and they did very well. No noticeable tire wear. One guy had BFG AT and his treads was shredding.

AdamD1 · Feb 7, 2018

I’ve just fitted a set of Kumho MT51’s which they call ‘mixed terrain’, basically a hybrid between an AT and Mud, triple ply construction similar to the Cooper ST Maxx.

More than happy with their road performance, bit of noise but nothing too worrying. Not tried them off road yet, from everything I can see they look very capable.

callisr · Feb 7, 2018

The Coopers linked in the above post are very good! My brother in law has them on his Land Rover and a friend of mine has them on an L200. They transformed that!

G-P · Feb 7, 2018

Thanks for the responses, sold on MT, I live in Cambridgshire, there is no rocky ground around here, but it does get very muddy.
As for road noise, if I was fussed about this I would not have bought a Defender, it will just be a different noise!
Now which MT? I here ther is a new BFG out soon, also heard good things around the Cooper’s and the General’s beat the current BFG’s in LRO international.

callisr · Feb 7, 2018

I’ve read that there is a new bfg out some time soon. I guess it depends on how soon you need / want new tyres? In reality, there is probably very little to choose from between the 3 brands you’ve mentioned above......

90jc · Feb 7, 2018

Untill last week i had AT grabbers 265 70 16on my pickup, was unsure what to go for next sane as you. I brought some second hand cooper discoverer MT to try in 235 85 16. Best thing i ever did. No noticable negetives just a very slight drop in mpg, althougj this could be caused by driving faster as the MT actialy feel better and handle better than the AT did. Very little road noise and an ok ride once at he right preasure. Even with the recent wet weather and sub zero mornings im very happy with the MT. Id say go for a good MT if its not your sole vehicle.

frog hopper · Feb 7, 2018

mikescuba said:
General Grabber AT2's which are OK. I don't think they are particularly good in the snow, they don't have as good a grip as my car with Michelin Alpine snow tires. They are OK in straight line pulling, but loose it on cornering. They work fine crossing my field even in the snow but I feel they are on there limit. I have been caught out in the mud though twice. Very good on the road . I'm thinking next time I change I think I will go for something like these. http://us.coopertire.com/tires/discoverer-stt-pro.aspx
I often go off roading in the forest here in France where I live and they have never let me down on what you call green lanes. But I wouldn't risk them in soft mud.
The AT2's are lasting very well, it will be age that kills them not tread wear. My thinking is along your lines I think. I would like to have something I feel more confident when going off piste.
Three years ago I went with a group of 4X4's across Morocco. Two vehicles had AT2's and they did very well. No noticeable tire wear. One guy had BFG AT and his treads was shredding.
View attachment 141403

I fitted these 12 months ago to my 90 and have to say they are very good for me. They are far quieter on the road than you might expect, with good road manners, just not quite up to a dedicated road tyre.
I found that the pressure is very critical, just a couple of psi too much and they can be quite vague on the road, get it right by trial and error for your set-up and they feel great, just a bit of under-steer if pressing on a bit.
Off piste they are very good in most situations, and hard wearing, but this last weekend as part of a group I did have a few moments on side slopes. Having said that they were no worse than any of the others, certainly better than a couple with AT's, but it really was slippery clay after the wettest winter for 60 years.
All in all I would replace with like for like next time.

nobber · Feb 7, 2018

I use XZL's, I will never use anything else.

sp00k · Feb 8, 2018

nobber said:
I use XZL's, I will never use anything else.

That's interesting nobber. I was actually going to ask how do XZL compare to the more modern tyres. I've only ever used XZL's on mine and in my view they provide a good compromise between on and off road performance whilst also being incredibly tough. My only criticisms would be I don't think they are the best for stopping in the wet on road and they are noisy. Compared to modern tyres, they do look tall and skinny though, but I actually quite like that as an traditional Landy look.

mikescuba · Feb 8, 2018

frog hopper said:
I fitted these 12 months ago to my 90 and have to say they are very good for me. They are far quieter on the road than you might expect, with good road manners, just not quite up to a dedicated road tyre.
I found that the pressure is very critical, just a couple of psi too much and they can be quite vague on the road, get it right by trial and error for your set-up and they feel great, just a bit of under-steer if pressing on a bit.
Off piste they are very good in most situations, and hard wearing, but this last weekend as part of a group I did have a few moments on side slopes. Having said that they were no worse than any of the others, certainly better than a couple with AT's, but it really was slippery clay after the wettest winter for 60 years.
All in all I would replace with like for like next time.

For AT,s I think the General Grabber AT2's are right up there with the best. In my opinion they are let down in mud and understeering in the snow. Crossing the Sahara they performed very well. If you are looking for something more off road there are better choices. Watching reviews on YouTube the new Cooper's STT pro are worth looking at. It's all a compromise and a trade off. I seem to be spending more time driving my Defender in more difficult conditions which is why I would consider a change to find the perfect tires.

dag019 · Feb 8, 2018

nobber said:
I use XZL's, I will never use anything else.

I have those on my series, they are a great tyre, as said a little noisy at speed if doing lots of road miles, but that is more than drowned out by a 2.25 diesel!

I would still go for an MT Tyre if you do not do lots of road miles, especially for this country. Just to throw some other options out there, Maxxis seems to get good reviews although I have no experience with them, and I had a set of Kuhmo LT71's for a while which were great in the mud. The Kumho's are a moderately soft compound so wear quickly on tarmac compared to the AT Grabbers or BFG. If you are mostly off road then they should last a long time and they far cheaper than the BFGs. I never managed to get stuck with those fitted whereas I have a few times with the AT's in soft mud. It is, however, not a very fair comparison as the Kumhos were 37.5/12.5/15 where as I fitted the BFG's after removing the lift kit and they are a far more sensible 265/75/16.

frog hopper · Feb 8, 2018

mikescuba said:
For AT,s I think the General Grabber AT2's are right up there with the best. In my opinion they are let down in mud and understeering in the snow. Crossing the Sahara they performed very well. If you are looking for something more off road there are better choices. Watching reviews on YouTube the new Cooper's STT pro are worth looking at. It's all a compromise and a trade off. I seem to be spending more time driving my Defender in more difficult conditions which is why I would consider a change to find the perfect tires.

I don't think I made myself clear, I was talking about the Cooper Discoverer STT PRO.

90jc · Feb 9, 2018

I know this is an age old argument and always stirs up opinions but i am very glad i went for a thinner tyre (235 from the original 265). Worked out a fair bit cheaper and so far seems better in every way. No noticeable drop in road holding and much much better in mud. I have also heard many good review's of the new bf goodritch mt and tbey seem to be available at a good price in many places.

AT or MT?

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