Anti the Antis

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"Tommy" <@invalid.com> wrote in message
> Jeremy Clarkson that ignorant right wing bigot once (just once) said
> something that might make us think.
>
> If instead of bigger and bigger cars (for safety!) you drove a car with a
> spike on the steering wheel instead of an airbag people might drive more
> carefully and with consideration rather than assume they are going to be
> safe in an accident
>
> Could be why death rates for drivers are coming down whilst death rates
> amongs cyclists/pedestrians are going up
>
>


According to a test on Channel 5 'Driven' last night an older 4x4 is less
dangerous to an adult pedestrian than an older car in a collision.

I agree about the idea of a spike instead of a driver's airbag.

Ian


 
Rooney vaguely muttered something like ...
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:15:17 +0000 (GMT), [email protected]
> ("David G. Bell") wrote:
>
>> On Monday, in article
>> <[email protected]>
>> [email protected] "Rooney" wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:23:30 +0000 (GMT), [email protected]
>>> ("David G. Bell") wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, in article
>>>> <1gocbln.tatlde2ot4xsN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>
>>>> %steve%@malloc.co.uk "Steve Firth" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rooney <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> GVW isn't what your car weighs. Kerb weight is what you need to look
>>>>>> at.
>>>>>
>>>>> But GVW is what the Californian legislation is based on.
>>>>
>>>> And some British legislation too.
>>>
>>> What bits please, David (generally - I'm not asking for chapter &
>>> verse)?

>>
>> Most obviously, Driving Licence classification -- you can drive up to
>> 3500kg gross on an ordinary licence, with no need for a medical
>> certificate. Over 7500kg, it needs the HGV licence (and now they're
>> talking about LGV). And some vehicle classes are defined by other
>> features.
>>
>> It also comes into definitions for what type of MoT station can test a
>> vehicle.
>>
>> The trailer behind a car doesn't need brakes if it's small enough.
>>
>> Generally, and mention of a vehicle's weight is concerned with the gross
>> weight, rather than the empty weight, at least as far as the law is
>> concerned. Weight limits on bridges, gravity might let an empty lorry
>> over when the law wouldn't.

>
>
> Ah - so a 7.5 tonner refers to GVW?
> Incidentally - can't this be driven on an ordinary licence? I've not
> checked mine for years but I thought it went up to 7.5.


Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the cut
off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife doesn't as
she only passed her test two years ago.


--
Paul ...
http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php



 
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:34:30 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the cut
>off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife doesn't as
>she only passed her test two years ago.


That'll be mine then. Which ones are 7.5 tonners then - furniture vans
- that kind of thing, or those smaller box vans?

--

R
o
o
n
e
y
 
On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Paul - xxx" wrote:

> Rooney vaguely muttered something like ...
> > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:15:17 +0000 (GMT), [email protected]
> >
> > Ah - so a 7.5 tonner refers to GVW?
> > Incidentally - can't this be driven on an ordinary licence? I've not
> > checked mine for years but I thought it went up to 7.5.

>
> Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the cut
> off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife doesn't as
> she only passed her test two years ago.


Late Nineties, I think. There was some sort of EU directive on getting
the whole EU on the same standards, which also extended the requirement
for a medical certificate from HGVs to the smaller vehicles.

It was left up to UK law to specify the details of what might lead to a
failure on the medical. Much fun ensued.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV
 
On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Rooney" wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:34:30 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the cut
> >off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife doesn't as
> >she only passed her test two years ago.

>
> That'll be mine then. Which ones are 7.5 tonners then - furniture vans
> - that kind of thing, or those smaller box vans?


It depends a little on how the vehicle is "plated". The local mobile
greengrocer's van is plated under 3.5 tonnes, but the same vehicle,
chassis and bodywork, could have been plated at about 4.5 tonnes if he'd
wanted to be able to carry the weight.



--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

Wrought under license granted by Her Majesty's Apostropher Royal AD MMIV
 
Rooney vaguely muttered something like ...
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:34:30 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the
>> cut off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife
>> doesn't as she only passed her test two years ago.

>
> That'll be mine then. Which ones are 7.5 tonners then - furniture vans
> - that kind of thing, or those smaller box vans?


Generally yes, but the plating laws are a bit 'strange' in that the same
chassis can be plated to different weights dependant upon what's fitted to
the chassis.

Ask at a hire place, they'll have chapter and verse as to the exact years
and what you're entitled to.
http://freespace.virgin.net/empire.hire/hirevan_and_lorry.htm
Has a few pictures and sizes of hire vans (First hit on a quick search) to
give you an idea.

It was Jan 1st 1997 that the licence changed. So if you passed your test
_AFTER_ that date you're limited to 3.5 ton combined weight. (trailers etc)

--
Paul ...
http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php



 
"David G. Bell" vaguely muttered something like ...
> On Tuesday, in article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "Paul - xxx" wrote:
>
>> Rooney vaguely muttered something like ...
>>> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:15:17 +0000 (GMT), [email protected]
>>>
>>> Ah - so a 7.5 tonner refers to GVW?
>>> Incidentally - can't this be driven on an ordinary licence? I've not
>>> checked mine for years but I thought it went up to 7.5.

>>
>> Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the
>> cut off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife
>> doesn't as she only passed her test two years ago.

>
> Late Nineties, I think. There was some sort of EU directive on getting
> the whole EU on the same standards, which also extended the requirement
> for a medical certificate from HGVs to the smaller vehicles.
>
> It was left up to UK law to specify the details of what might lead to a
> failure on the medical. Much fun ensued.


Yeah, just checked and it was Jan 1st 1997.

Wife looked on her licence bumph, she keeps that kind of thing .. ;)


--
Paul ...
http://dogpoopblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php



 
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:54:07 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Rooney vaguely muttered something like ...
>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:34:30 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yup .. providing you have an 'early' licence, which I can't remember the
>>> cut off. I have the entitlement to drive up to 7.5 ton, but my wife
>>> doesn't as she only passed her test two years ago.

>>
>> That'll be mine then. Which ones are 7.5 tonners then - furniture vans
>> - that kind of thing, or those smaller box vans?

>
>Generally yes, but the plating laws are a bit 'strange' in that the same
>chassis can be plated to different weights dependant upon what's fitted to
>the chassis.
>
>Ask at a hire place, they'll have chapter and verse as to the exact years
>and what you're entitled to.
>http://freespace.virgin.net/empire.hire/hirevan_and_lorry.htm
>Has a few pictures and sizes of hire vans (First hit on a quick search) to
>give you an idea.
>
>It was Jan 1st 1997 that the licence changed. So if you passed your test
>_AFTER_ that date you're limited to 3.5 ton combined weight. (trailers etc)



Thanks - that's exactly what I was looking for.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y
 
I was convinced it was a California thing, Dave. Perhaps not.

Back in Connecticut, where I grew up, one seemed to learn that things
weighing tons and your person, when co-mingling, typically didn't work to
your advantage. The "right of way" at crosswalks is a legislative courtesy
or mandate; this can conflict significantly with laws of physics when
personal safety is involved. Then again, there is the "nut behind the wheel"
factor. All of this should conspire to impart a sense of respect for things
larger than you and an accompanying awareness.

The wisdom imparted here in California seems to be that there is an
invisible, protective shield around our bodies that allows us to stupidly
step into traffic and, somehow, the painted lines on the road will protect
us. Therefore, it is not necessary to look left or right, or even look up.
One can read a book, zone out to the music in the earphones, look directly
at one's companion when walking and talking, etc.

It must be a generational thing. I pointed this out to our daughters at a
young age and, hopefully, helped sustain the gene pool. But it's a loosing
battle here in northern Ca.

Ken


"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tommy" <@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jeremy Clarkson that ignorant right wing bigot once (just once) said
> > something that might make us think.
> >
> > If instead of bigger and bigger cars (for safety!) you drove a car with

a
> > spike on the steering wheel instead of an airbag people might drive

more
> > carefully and with consideration rather than assume they are going to be
> > safe in an accident
> >
> > Could be why death rates for drivers are coming down whilst death rates
> > amongs cyclists/pedestrians are going up

>
> I'm not familiar with the statistics so I'll give you the benefit of the
> doubt. If death rates amongst cyclists and pedestrians is indeed going

up,
> on the evidence of my own eyes I would have to say they have no-one to

blame
> but themselves. My short drive home from Kingston to Epsom tonight
> demonstrated this very well. Twice I encountered pedestrians using mobile
> phones, oblivious to what was going on around them, step straight off the
> pavement into oncoming traffic without looking at all. At the approach to
> the Ace of Spades roundabout, a cyclist swerved straight across the

traffic
> coming up behind him without even the most cursory glance behind. And

when
> I got to Hook Parade, pedestrians were darting across the road between

fast
> moving cars even though the crossing lights were against them.
>
> I find myself increasingly offering up a prayer that today's journey won't
> end up with some nutter pedestrian or loony cyclist throwing themselves
> under my car, because I know that as the biased laws stand, I'll be
> immediately treated as the guilty party unless I can prove my innocence
> beyond question. And just to rub salt into the wound, I'm the only one

out
> of the three "protagonists" that is paying road tax for the dubious
> privilege of being put under this threat!
> --
> Dave (Sgt. Pepper) Epsom, England
> Nikon D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700 / Canon Ixus 400 / Paintshop Pro 8
> My photo galleries at http://www.pbase.com/davecq
>



 
As a top poster I think bigot is - One who is strongly partial to one's own
race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

as someone who has read his columns for years even before he was "really"
famous I have seen him move from his little house in west London to a house
in the "midlands" and then buying a flat in Chelsea harbour - I admit he
could be the loveliest man in the world , a saint , he may even walk on
water BUT the views he expresses makes him sound a nasty bigot - the petrol
heads' Gilbert Harding, even in his latest interview (Zoo) tells the world
that he hates plebs coming up top talk to him and he would be happy to set
them on fire!

I'm sure it could be dry humour

Regarding my name its also real and at least its not an advert for my career
:) Sorry James


"jf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In message <[email protected]>, Tommy
> <?@?.?.invalid> writes
> >Jeremy Clarkson that ignorant right wing bigot once (just once) said
> >something that might make us think.

>
> You don't know that he's a bigot. Either that or you don't know what it
> means. Also he has the courage to broadcast under his own name.
>
> --
> James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>



 

"Dave (Sgt. Pepper)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm not familiar with the statistics so I'll give you the benefit of the
> doubt. If death rates amongst cyclists and pedestrians is indeed going

up,
> on the evidence of my own eyes I would have to say they have no-one to

blame
> but themselves. My short drive home from Kingston to Epsom tonight
> demonstrated this very well. Twice I encountered pedestrians using mobile
> phones, oblivious to what was going on around them, step straight off the
> pavement into oncoming traffic without looking at all. At the approach to
> the Ace of Spades roundabout, a cyclist swerved straight across the

traffic
> coming up behind him without even the most cursory glance behind. And

when
> I got to Hook Parade, pedestrians were darting across the road between

fast
> moving cars even though the crossing lights were against them.
>
> I find myself increasingly offering up a prayer that today's journey won't
> end up with some nutter pedestrian or loony cyclist throwing themselves
> under my car, because I know that as the biased laws stand, I'll be
> immediately treated as the guilty party unless I can prove my innocence
> beyond question. And just to rub salt into the wound, I'm the only one

out
> of the three "protagonists" that is paying road tax for the dubious
> privilege of being put under this threat!
> --
> Dave (Sgt. Pepper) Epsom, England
> Nikon D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700 / Canon Ixus 400 / Paintshop Pro 8
> My photo galleries at http://www.pbase.com/davecq


You have responsibility for the idiots all around you - OK one in their
huge 4x4 might be OK but how will the rest of your life be if you killed a
prat or an idiot (letr assume its their fault they died)/ their
child/wife/parent would pop into your mind quite often - If you are anything
approaching a decent human being>


 
On Monday, in article
<[email protected]> @invalid.com
"Tommy" wrote:

> If instead of bigger and bigger cars (for safety!) you drove a car with a
> spike on the steering wheel instead of an airbag people might drive more
> carefully and with consideration rather than assume they are going to be
> safe in an accident


It wasn't Clarkson. Amongst others it has been suggested by Prof.
Heinz Wolffe.
--
Raj Rijhwani | This is the voice of the Mysterons...
[email protected] | ... We know that you can hear us Earthmen
http://www.rijhwani.org/raj/ | "Lieutenant Green: Launch all Angels!"

 

"Tommy" <@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jeremy Clarkson that ignorant right wing bigot once (just once) said
> something that might make us think.
>
> If instead of bigger and bigger cars (for safety!) you drove a car with a
> spike on the steering wheel instead of an airbag people might drive more
> carefully and with consideration rather than assume they are going to be
> safe in an accident
>
> Could be why death rates for drivers are coming down whilst death rates
> amongs cyclists/pedestrians are going up
>

It might also have something to do with the disregard for the law amongst a
section of the cycling public.As an expample some millions of pounds have
been spent around manchester airport providing cycle lanes and dedicated
tunnels but still they continue to ignore them preferring to risk death by
riding on the roads and through the tunnels under the runway and of course
all this without lights.......................maybe a spike on the crossbar
would ensure the next generation don't have this problem???
Derek


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 09/12/2004


 
Steve Firth wrote:
> The Land Rover Discovery is 2.7 tonnes.


Even so, in American terms, the Disco is a smallish
SUV. Some of their full-sized pickups have a bonnet
line half way to the Disco's roof line. This is
why anti-4x4 campaigners importing ready-made
arguments from the USA are comparing apples with
oranges.

-- Steve


 
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