Alternatives to a new Defender?

biggeeeee said:

Dacia

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Got one already!

wattfield said:

Got one already!

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There's hunners of them, take it for the money they are ok?
Resale value will be poor though I would think

£20,000 gets you a G-Wagon thirty years old.
And l thought prices were high for TD5's!

biggeeeee said:

There's hunners of them, take it for the money they are ok?
Resale value will be poor though I would think

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Mine (well the wife drives it, I've got the Defender) was under 3 years old, 7500 miles on the clock and looks like new, for the price of a 10 year old, 100,000 mile Freelander. Which is why I didn't buy a Freelander!

Same as always .. why does he want an alternative? What's he use it for?

If he wants a Defender for 'the image' then there's no substitute .... if it's for what it can do then Disco ...

Merc are too expensive but still feel cheap, Jeep are just poorly built and cheap, but aren't a good road car at all, worse than Defender!

G wagon at least its got class unlike most other 4x4s.
The jeep like all yank motors will be great to look at and pants in all other respects, in their defence I think a lot of them have the merc diesels and gearboxes.

Marmaduke said:

Yeah cos you can lease one of those brand new
Discovery Sport would get my vote

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OK then Discovery Sport

doesnt the g-wagen have 3 lockable diffs?

Does it have to be a "car" 4x4 I would be looking at one of the double cab pickups if it had to get a brand new equivalent. With one of the truckman style back ends they are basically a large 4x4 estate.

lightning said:

Mercedes G Wagon? Jeep Wrangler?

Are these alternatives worth looking at. My friend wants a 4x4 but it has to be new for lease purposes.

G Wagon costs a fortune. Looks like a Defender without the personality or design flair. But is it any good. Jeep Wrangler, l have no idea. I once drove a 1990's one and it was terrible. Had something like 4.0 litre engine but was dog slow. And the dash made a Defender 90 look like quality.

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A 4.0 litre Jeep is not slow, so you are obviously bull****ting and make up nonesense. The least powerful variant had 170hp while most were 190hp. In a Wrangler or Cherokee XJ that gives them 0-60mph times in the mid 8 second range. Nothing production Defender has even come close to that....

There was a much older 4.2 Jeep, but that was more back in the day when the 2.6 was an option in the 109. The 4.2 would have had a fatter low end torque curve however.

lightning said:

Well the Jeep has some pedigree.
Not sure about the new ones though.

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Sorry, but what the **** are you on???

Jeep has more pedigree than any Land Rover, don't be so arrogant or ignorant.


Anyhow, to answer your question. It depends what you are wanting exactly.

If you want a SWB 'utility' 4x4, then there is currently very little in the UK or wider market. i.e. a 90 pickup/hard top.

If you are wanting a SWB 4x4 off roader there are some options.

1. The Jeep Wrangler. Offer in 3 door with a 95" wheelbase (Defender is 92.9" wheelbase). The Jeep uses a body on frame (ladder chassis) and live axles, just like a Defender. However the Jeep was an all new design in 2005, meaning it has a modern engine/gearbox setup. Well designed body tub and a very strong hydroformed ladder chassis.

On road and off road it is far superior to a Defender. Even in it's base model trim.

However they are NOT aimed at the utility market. They are given a poor tow rating (not because it physically isn't capable, more political reasons and marketing). And they have a small boot area as they have forward facing rear seats. However they are tough and rugged and highly adaptable and capable machines.

Plus they have direct lineage to the original Jeep used in WW2 and the vehicle that actually influenced the Land Rover. There are also military Jeeps still built today for other markets.


2. Suzuki Jimny. Very small and compact and hugely capable off road machine. Think of them as an 88" Series One Land Rover, but with Defender suspension. And built to a better standard. However they small inside and not much use for utility with a really low tow rating.


If you want wanting an alternative to the Defender 110 or 130 however, there are more options.

1. The Jeep Wrangler JK again. Only in 5 door LWB version. Very very similar to a 110, although again aimed at the recreational market, so not really utility.

2. The modern pick up truck; Ford Ranger through to Toyota Hilux. Lots of choice in the UK market. All pretty good utility vehicles, but all pretty much pick ups, so not a real substitute for 110 hard top or County. However none are as good off road as the Defender, if that will matter.

3. US pick ups. Huge huge range, from American and Japanese makers. Well attired, much better than UK market trucks. But often slightly bigger and bigger engines.

4. More of a luxury option. Such as a Disco 4 or a Land Cruiser. However these are generally a step further away from utility than the Wrangler is and often far more complex and expensive.



The G-Wagen is a superb vehicle. Very well built and highly capable. Always was. But these days they really are a trendy fashion icon and the price reflects this. These modern takes are still the same vehicle, but have lot much of their utility appeal with plush interiors and high performance V8 road engines.


Of course, you can still buy a less than 1 year old Defenders, so these could be an option still. Or simply rebuild an older one, or even a Range Rover/Disco 1.

flat said:

doesnt the g-wagen have 3 lockable diffs?

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Yes, they have always come standard with axle lockers as well as a centre diff. Although they tend to flex less than a Defender does, stock for stock.

Jeep Wrangler's can be optioned with a rear locker and the Rubicon variant also comes standard with diff lockers front and rear, as well as electronically detachable anti roll bars.

Mmm old jeeps with big engines, one day I shall buy another


360cid

There is the Jeep UTE which I believe is coming to the UK 2017. 4 door pick up.



In all honest I was going to buy a Wrangler before I found the green oval. Though mainly as there was never one for a reasonable price, plus I did hear they absolutely hate water. Driving through it and rain!

Thanks for the replies.

To answer a few comments posted above.
The Jeep l drove was an old one and it was not fast. I take back "dog slow" as that's unfair. It had plenty of torque but not much real speed, would be great off road though....which is what they are for l guess.

When l said the Jeep has "some pedigree" that was supposed to be a compliment! It preceded the Land Rover of course, which was modelled on it. And l meant the wartime Jeep.
When l said "not sure about the new ones" l meant not sure if they are still true to tbe legend.
l would say the last Defenders were. The Jeep Wrangler looks good but l wanted to know if it was still like a Defender. As in a traditional 4x4.

lightning said:

Thanks for the replies.

To answer a few comments posted above.
The Jeep l drove was an old one and it was not fast. I take back "dog slow" as that's unfair. It had plenty of torque but not much real speed, would be great off road though....which is what they are for l guess.

When l said the Jeep has "some pedigree" that was supposed to be a compliment! It preceded the Land Rover of course, which was modelled on it. And l meant the wartime Jeep.
When l said "not sure about the new ones" l meant not sure if they are still true to tbe legend.
l would say the last Defenders were. The Jeep Wrangler looks good but l wanted to know if it was still like a Defender. As in a traditional 4x4.

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The Wrangler is as akin to the WW2 Jeeps as the Defender is to a Series One 80" Land Rover.

If you check through the history of both models and companies, you'll be amazed at the similarity, although as a trend Jeep did most things before Land Rover did.

My sig highlights some of the things for reference.

But as a brief overview.

In WW2 the GP1 aka Jeep was born. Usually referred to as an MJ for Military Jeep.

To bolster sales Jeep introduced the CJ, aka Civilian Jeep. They even offer the AgriJeep, with the aim of it being a tractor, just like the original vision for the Series 1 Land Rover, only 3 years earlier.

The CJ went through many variants, just like the Series vehicles did. Then as part a redesign instead of calling it a CJ they branded it Wrangler. But it was the direct replacement for the previous CJ, just as the Defender directly replaced the Ninety and One Ten models.

BTW - most UK market JK Wranglers (2005+) use the 2.8 VM diesel engine. Current ones are almost 200hp stock and even 2005 model ones still produce more power than any factory diesel Defender has.

Early petrol ones are 3.8 V6's with around 210-230hp and latter ones use a new direct injection 3.6 with something like 290hp.

lightning said:

Thanks for the replies.

To answer a few comments posted above.
The Jeep l drove was an old one and it was not fast. I take back "dog slow" as that's unfair. It had plenty of torque but not much real speed, would be great off road though....which is what they are for l guess.

When l said the Jeep has "some pedigree" that was supposed to be a compliment! It preceded the Land Rover of course, which was modelled on it. And l meant the wartime Jeep.
When l said "not sure about the new ones" l meant not sure if they are still true to tbe legend.
l would say the last Defenders were. The Jeep Wrangler looks good but l wanted to know if it was still like a Defender. As in a traditional 4x4.

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dont forget the wartime jeep was modelled on the british army austin 7, so technically the land rover and the jeep both originated with an austin road car lol

Well he's gone for a 4 door Jeep Wrangler Safari.
Under £400 per month.