Aircon

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JohnP38 said:
Found Autokool online this am and have ordered cans from them.Hopefully will help to sort this out.Must admit I wasnt aware you could get DIY aircon regas kits:eek:
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If it's leaking enough for them not to be able to pull a vac it's pointless putting anything other than a bit of gas and dye in it to find the leak.
 
wammers said:
If it's leaking enough for them not to be able to pull a vac it's pointless putting anything other than a bit of gas and dye in it to find the leak.
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Exactly...A Nitrogen charge is a hell of a lot less than a small can of R143. If it's a bad leak, you won't need leak detector dye it will p**s out. Do you realise that the P38 system holds around 1200gms of refrigerant ? If the system is empty (At atmospheric pressure), you will need a fair amount of gas to build the pressure up to a point where you can find the leak. You could get a Nitrogen check for a fraction of the cost of say 3 cans of gas, which are likely to p**s into the wind anyway.
 
Irishrover said:
Exactly...A Nitrogen charge is a hell of a lot less than a small can of R143. If it's a bad leak, you won't need leak detector dye it will p**s out. Do you realise that the P38 system holds around 1200gms of refrigerant ? If the system is empty (At atmospheric pressure), you will need a fair amount of gas to build the pressure up to a point where you can find the leak. You could get a Nitrogen check for a fraction of the cost of say 3 cans of gas, which are likely to p**s into the wind anyway.
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The only local place who can pressurize with N2 charges £59+vat to do so.
3 Cans of R134 gas cost £27+vat so I thought I would give it a try.I am not convinced it is a big leak as the cooling slowly degraded over a fair period.If it dosent work out this way,I will chalk it up to a learning experience.:clap2:
 
If you remove the radiator grille (6 screws) and then the top panel (4 bolts) you can see the top of the condenser.
Look at the top left hand corner (facing towards the rear of the car)
and you may even be able to see the deterioration of the condenser in that area.
If it looks rough and / or greasy, you can bet that is where the leak is coming from.

I could actually see a hole about the diameter of a pin on my last vehicle.
 
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JohnP38 said:
The only local place who can pressurize with N2 charges £59+vat to do so.
3 Cans of R134 gas cost £27+vat so I thought I would give it a try.I am not convinced it is a big leak as the cooling slowly degraded over a fair period.If it dosent work out this way,I will chalk it up to a learning experience.:clap2:
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It is illegal, with a hoooooge fine, if you knowingly release Ozone depleting gases into the environment. :(.
 
bison4x4 said:
If you remove the radiator grille (4 screws) and then the top panel (4 bolts) you can see the top of the condenser.
Look at the top left hand corner (facing towards the rear of the car)
and you may even be able to see the deterioration of the condenser in that area.
If it looks rough and / or greasy, you can bet that is where the leak is coming from.

I could actually see a hole about the diameter of a pin on my last vehicle.
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Thanks ,will do that and check connections are tight before I use the R134
 
Datatek said:
It is to be hoped that you don't break wind too often then as a fart contains a great deal of Methane gas which is classed as ozone depleting:rolleyes:
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NASA should be up for a big fine then every time the space shuttle went up it destroyed about 3600 tons of Ozone apparently.
 
Under the EC F gas Regulation, in relation to mobile air-conditioning only Article 4 obligations apply, namely that F gases should be recovered where economically and technically feasible and that personnel undertaking such work hold an appropriate qualification.

So a company taking delivery of R134a for use in a mobile air-conditioning system should ensure that if refrigerant is recovered from the system this is undertaken by suitably qualified personnel.

If, for example, R134a was purchased solely to top up a MAC system then the person taking delivery and doing the work would not be required to hold a qualification. However if doing recovery work as part of servicing and maintenance, then a qualification is required.

So it is not illegal for a non qualified person to top up a MAC system, however, it is not advisable to simply top up a system without leak checks being undertaken first, topping up will not cure a problem just postpone it. Also, under new Department for Transport Regulations that enforce the MAC Directive, it would be illegal to top up a system where abnormal leakage has occurred. So, a non qualified person can legally top up a system in the first instance, however if, for example, all of the refrigerant leaked out again within a few days, this would indicate abnormal leakage and to top it up again without the leak being investigated and repaired, would constitute an offence.

Further information on ‘abnormal leakage’

New DfT regulations came into force on 7th September 2009 (SI 2194/2009 & SI 2196/2009) and address the requirements of the MAC Directive (please see attached). In relation to abnormal leakage there are a number of conditions that should be met at Regulation 3, reproduced below:

3.

(1) No service provider may fill an air conditioning system with fluorinated greenhouse gases where—

(a) an abnormal amount of refrigerant has leaked from that system, and

(b) the necessary repair to the system has not been completed.

(2) In determining whether the amount of refrigerant that has leaked from an air conditioning system is abnormal, regard must be had, in particular, to—

(a) whether a reasonably competent service provider would consider the leak to be abnormal;

(b) any information provided by the manufacturer to the user of the vehicle, in particular information contained in the owner’s manual; and

(c) any requirements as to the design, construction and equipment which were applicable to the vehicle for the purpose of permitting its registration, sale or entry into service as a new vehicle.

Our understanding of the wording ‘fill an air conditioning system’ is that this relates to recharging for normal use without intention to repair a suspected leak.
 
Bloody hell there will be a regulation to cover how much bog roll you use in a bit. How long does it take to learn how to use a refill station, it must be all of half an hour. Then a five day course costing maybe £500.00 to get a cetificate saying you can do it. Total bull****. Another jobs for the boys training need has been generated where one was not needed. You could not make it up.
 
wammers said:
Bloody hell there will be a regulation to cover how much bog roll you use in a bit. How long does it take to learn how to use a refill station, it must be all of half an hour. Then a five day course costing maybe £500.00 to get a cetificate saying you can do it. Total bull****. Another jobs for the boys training need has been generated where one was not needed. You could not make it up.
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It's nothing to do with training, it's just a cover for more stealth tax.:rolleyes:

The aircon vac & regas kit is dead simple to use.
 
Datatek said:
It's nothing to do with training, it's just a cover for more stealth tax.:rolleyes:

The aircon vac & regas kit is dead simple to use.
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Yeah i know that Keith bloody stupidity all this regulation. When i took my PPL you had to learn and pass exams on stuff you would never use in a million flying hours. It takes a few hours to learn how to fly a light aircraft and months to pass all the bull**** exams.
 
wammers said:
Yeah i know that Keith bloody stupidity all this regulation. When i took my PPL you had to learn and pass exams on stuff you would never use in a million flying hours. It takes a few hours to learn how to fly a light aircraft and months to pass all the bull**** exams.
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Well I have an ALTP and the exams for that have more inconsequential drivel than you can believe.I have covered over 14000 flying hours and would flunk the exams tomorrow .if I were to take them without weeks of study to remind me of all the irrelavent stuff they contain,which I havent used in the past 25 years!.
Having said that i am still going to attempt to repair and refill my RR aircon system myself.
 
JohnP38 said:
Well I have an ALTP and the exams for that have more inconsequential drivel than you can believe.I have covered over 14000 flying hours and would flunk the exams tomorrow .if I were to take them without weeks of study to remind me of all the irrelavent stuff they contain,which I havent used in the past 25 years!.
Having said that i am still going to attempt to repair and refill my RR aircon system myself.
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Good man go for it. But if you open it, say to replace a condensor you have to get it evacuated to get all moist air out or the system will screw up on you.
 
My new condensor came with a small precharge of oil and was sealed. When I removed the old condensor I sealed the hoses until I was ready to reconnect to the new condensor. It was a dry day. When it was all back together I recharged it with cans from the USA to see if it all worked. I intended to have it recharged professionally once I knew it worked, but somehow I never got round to it. The aircon has been working fine for 2 years now.
Go for it!
 
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