Air or springs?

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Another Question
In the compressor rebuild kits I have seen there is a cylinder shaped sponge, I'm assuming this is the filter but can't for the life of me locate where in the system it is.
FOUND IT - in a very obvious place
any ideas or is there an idiots pictorial rebuild guide online?
FOUND ONE, thanks

cheers again
Richard
 
Last edited:
abercorn said:
update-
Thanks again for all the suggestions and the PMs, I've ordered the diagnostics kit from Keith and have been reading up on the system.
The car has a full service history and it looks like the air springs were replaced about 40k ago, mind you that was 6 years ago.
The air system does look pretty easy to work on, the only hassle is having to clear the faults with the laptop (what happens when accountants get to contribute to car design! mind you the CX did bankrupt Citroen so maybe they can be forgiven).
Having recently replaced the springs on a Subaru Legacy (these are the thickest springs I have seen on a 'car' ie not a truck) I'm on the whole a huge fan of systems where the car does the lifting over latent spring energy, once you've got used to a self levelling suspension it's hard to give it up, I was reminded of this as I glided over Edinburgh's 44DD size speed bumps in the CX yesterday at 30mph without feeling anything more than a mild gallic shrug.
Also, unless a second hand set if springs etc can be sourced from a scrappy it doesn't seem to make any economic sense at all to switch back to springs. So thanks for your advice which has been unanimous in keeping the air.

during my initial exploration of the fault yesterday, I did find that one of the LPG rubber feed pipes had popped off a junction at some point during my employees road trip on Sunday:eek: fortunately, it's a good system and it immediately shut down. Our company works in the LPG sector at terminals and depots and it teaches you a healthy respect for the stuff. We have an LPG engineer at work and I am going to get him to service the system which was professionally installed last year but I am surprised that hose popped off, however, it could have been my employee scrabbling around in the dark under the bonnet.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I have not received any order from you.:confused:
 
- Doh! filter located
This is a good guide to stripping down the compressor and replacing the seals even if he does put the cover on back to front and tends to gloss over the bit about removing the sealing ring from the piston (I reckon thie took hours with much swearing)
Range Rover P38a - EAS Air Compressor Rebuild - YouTube

This link is a pretty decent idiots guide for refurbishing the valve block, some interesting suggestions like using a crochet hook to remove o rings. I usually use a bamboo satay kebab stick instead so not to damage the metal at all.
EAS Valve Block Rebuild Guide | PaulP38A.com

One thing I failed to check was the state of the diaphragm so I'll heave to take it to bits again!
 
abercorn said:
- Doh! filter located
This is a good guide to stripping down the compressor and replacing the seals even if he does put the cover on back to front and tends to gloss over the bit about removing the sealing ring from the piston (I reckon thie took hours with much swearing)
Range Rover P38a - EAS Air Compressor Rebuild - YouTube

This link is a pretty decent idiots guide for refurbishing the valve block, some interesting suggestions like using a crochet hook to remove o rings. I usually use a bamboo satay kebab stick instead so not to damage the metal at all.
EAS Valve Block Rebuild Guide | PaulP38A.com

One thing I failed to check was the state of the diaphragm so I'll heave to take it to bits again!
Click to expand...

Pump rebuild shows inside of compressor well but don't take a lot of notice of what is said about exhaust O'ring. It needs to be stuck in with silicone contrary to what is said in the video. Was playing by ear and obviously didn't have a bloody clue what he was doing. Put the cylinder head on back to front, that would have been interesting if he had started the compressor as the inlet reed securing screw made love to the piston. Follow the instructions in my "How to" and use the video for visual reference. But do fit the head the correct way round.
 
Last edited:
wammers said:
Pump rebuild shows inside of compressor well but don't take a lot of notice of what is said about exhaust O'ring. It needs to be stuck in with silicone contrary to what is said in the video. Was playing by ear and obviously didn't have a bloody clue what he was doing. Put the cylinder head on back to front, that would have been interesting if he had started the compressor as the inlet reed securing screw made love to the piston. Follow the instructions in my "How to" and use the video for visual reference. But do fit the head the correct way round.
Click to expand...

he seemed keen to use 'teflon' lube everywhere but not silicon seal, 10/10 for winging it but a bit naughty of him to pass it off as gospel - putting the head on backwards - what do you reckon? 5 piston strokes before it smashes itself to bits and I wonder if that would and up sooking the air out rather than filling it!

I've ordered new seals etc for the block and the pump and will make sure I use silicon
 
abercorn said:
he seemed keen to use 'teflon' lube everywhere but not silicon seal, 10/10 for winging it but a bit naughty of him to pass it off as gospel - putting the head on backwards - what do you reckon? 5 piston strokes before it smashes itself to bits and I wonder if that would and up sooking the air out rather than filling it!

I've ordered new seals etc for the block and the pump and will make sure I use silicon
Click to expand...
I got my seal kit from LandRoverwinkel.nl with a downloadable fitting guide, great value and still going strong. No affiliation :)
 
tomcat59alan said:
I can only speak as I find. I got one seal kit from them many years ago and did not have a problem with it. They sent me their latest seal/cylinder kit in 2010 to trial and it has given sterling service :D:D
Click to expand...

They supplied a blackish piston seal a few years ago that was complete crap. Much too stiff and failed miserably in cold conditions. I am sure not everything they sell is rubbish, but that particular "second generation seal" as they called it, was unfortunately.
 
abercorn said:
he seemed keen to use 'teflon' lube everywhere but not silicon seal, 10/10 for winging it but a bit naughty of him to pass it off as gospel - putting the head on backwards - what do you reckon? 5 piston strokes before it smashes itself to bits and I wonder if that would and up sooking the air out rather than filling it!

I've ordered new seals etc for the block and the pump and will make sure I use silicon
Click to expand...

No need for any lubricant at all. Nine times out of ten gripping the seal with a pair of pliers, it can be pulled out from between piston and retaining ring. Then going around with a screwdriver with a larger flat blade to lever progressively off. You could see him damaging the alloy piston. No hide mallet needed to replace retainer just gentle progressive squeezing to snug down with a pair of pipe grips until seal is firmly clamped to piston by retainer. Then i like to put a couple of pop marks in the alloy crown just inside the retainer to piston joint for extra safety. It is also good practice never to fit a new seal to an old cylinder. Always fit both. You can check cylinder for wear by giving it a rub with some Brasso if any part of it shows a polish it is knackered. Should be a uniform dull matt anodised finish.
 
wammers said:
They supplied a blackish piston seal a few years ago that was complete crap. Much too stiff and failed miserably in cold conditions. I am sure not everything they sell is rubbish, but that particular "second generation seal" as they called it, was unfortunately.
Click to expand...
My original one was blackish/dark grey and was used with my original cylinder. When I removed it, not through failure, there was slight marking on the lip of the seal on the thrust side of the seal/piston. The one they sent me to trial was the latest generation Teflon seal and this kit came with a new cylinder and this has been faultless. My original cylinder was in good condition so perhaps that is why I never had an issue with the original seal.
 
tomcat59alan said:
My original one was blackish/dark grey and was used with my original cylinder. When I removed it, not through failure, there was slight marking on the lip of the seal on the thrust side of the seal/piston. The one they sent me to trial was the latest generation Teflon seal and this kit came with a new cylinder and this has been faultless. My original cylinder was in good condition so perhaps that is why I never had an issue with the original seal.
Click to expand...

The hard black seals were said to have no memory, they were much too stiff with little elasticity. If the compressor stopped with one side pressed against the cylinder. And the car was left overnight in cold weather. When the compressor restarted the lip that had been compressed against the cylinder stayed where it was and caused blow by. They had no resilience and would not return to their original shape.
 
Thanks wammers, again, invaluable advice. I've ordered a full rebuild kit with a new cylinder.
Interesting what you said about the black seals, I noticed that the side of the seal with the tear had been caused by the teflon in that area being worn thin and it was also out of shape, could the same thing happen to the later teflon seals with one side being pressed against side wall during cold weather? I wonder if there is a coincidence this failed a few days after the first frosts?
 
abercorn said:
Thanks wammers, again, invaluable advice. I've ordered a full rebuild kit with a new cylinder.
Interesting what you said about the black seals, I noticed that the side of the seal with the tear had been caused by the teflon in that area being worn thin and it was also out of shape, could the same thing happen to the later teflon seals with one side being pressed against side wall during cold weather? I wonder if there is a coincidence this failed a few days after the first frosts?
Click to expand...

The only times the seal is square to the cylinder bore is at TDC and BDC. At all other times it is tilted slightly one way on the upstroke and the other way on the down stroke. The air seal is caused initially by the fit of the seal in the bore then further enhanced as air pressure forces the seal against the cylinder wall. Because of the oscillation of the piston, one side of the seal will always be in harder contact with the cylinder wall on the compression stroke than the other. Simply that side wears more.
 
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