Freelander 1 Air con regas then failed

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andyfreelandy

andyfreelandy

Well-Known Member
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Location
Devon
Have had such good results from my Kalahari regas that I took the TD4 to same place.

Pressure test, OK. Gas charged OK.

Ice cold air con for about 20 mins then failed back to same as with just fan on and no air con.

Compressor clutch is clicking in OK

What is most likely?
I had a tracer dye put in so will visual the condenser first. What else could it be?? Obvs all worked for a while so compressor is probably OK.

Anyone had similar?
Thanks.....
 
If the compressor is clicking in and out, then the system is running, but possibly not at maximum capacity. I'd have the pressure rechecked, to see if it's dropped off a bit. Presumably the system was correctly evacuated before it was re-gassed?
 
Pressure check is on the list, may have a look for green dye before returning.
System evacuated and pressure tested before refill.

Just working out how to visually inspect condenser, but it looks like bumper off job.
 
andyfreelandy said:
Have had such good results from my Kalahari regas that I took the TD4 to same place.

Pressure test, OK. Gas charged OK.

Ice cold air con for about 20 mins then failed back to same as with just fan on and no air con.

Compressor clutch is clicking in OK

What is most likely?
I had a tracer dye put in so will visual the condenser first. What else could it be?? Obvs all worked for a while so compressor is probably OK.

Anyone had similar?
Thanks.....
Click to expand...

I would say you still have a leak. As you say, if it worked to begin with it sounds like the compressor is working ok.
If you have sufficient gas the it won't trip out on LP, low pressure. If the condenser fan isn't working the system pressure could go up to the point that it trips out on HP, high pressure.
I'd take it back and get them to check it again. If they have to put more gas in then it's clearly leaking out of somewhere. It there is dye inside, have a good look for a trace. It's also worth checking that the LP and HP connectors have their dust caps on, that there is a rubber seal inside the cap and that the valves themselves aren't leaking.
 
Dust caps are missing, so you might have a point re the valves leaking. There remains, even after 8 hours, enough pressure to operate the compressor clutch so would a slow leak cause such an early failure?
Will spray some washing up liquid on the valves and have a look at the condenser.

Thanks for ideas.
 
New info.
No leaks can be seen.
On starting car the aircon works for about 5 mins gets about 5 deg below ambient then warms up.
Other vehicle that works well drops 20 deg to 6 deg C.

Ideas for a cold start then failure?!
 
Used car today, air con working fine !
Measured 5.5 deg C.
Checked clutch all good and removed and cleaned pressure sensor connector connections.
Seems to have fixed itself!!

Will check fault codes and report back. Thanks
 
Personally i'd want a set of pressure guages on it while it's running. If it was a system using capiliary i'd suggest the capil was being blocked by moisture. I believe auto systems use a TEV, a thermal expansion valve. It works similar to the needle in an SU carb. Most of the stuff i worked on was poartable A/C and dehumidifiers very few of which had TEVs. The stuff i dealt with with a TEV never exhibited the symptoms you have unless they were very low on gas.
Running it with guages on would tell you this straight away.
Without doing so is a bit like going to the doctor and saying your heart feels a bit odd and the doctor holding out his arms in front of you, closing his eyes and saying, "could be anything mate..."
 
Dar ran Dar ran said:
Arrrrr air con if only mine worked ‍♂️
Click to expand...
Arrrrr air con if only I wasn't to tight to use it (even though I probably burn more fuel carrying around all the dirt and rubbish from not cleaning the car!)

Having said that, I operate it on the same basis as the sunroof... if I use it, its going to break, so don't bother using it in the first place :D
 
GrumpyGel said:
Arrrrr air con if only I wasn't to tight to use it
Click to expand...
Using AC on my TD4 makes no noticeable difference to fuel consumption. ;)
GrumpyGel said:
even though I probably burn more fuel carrying around all the dirt and rubbish from not cleaning the car!
Click to expand...
Interestingly lugging a 50Kg tool box about in my FL1 does make a difference to the Mpg.:eek:
GrumpyGel said:
Having said that, I operate it on the same basis as the sunroof... if I use it, its going to break, so don't bother using it in the first place :D
Click to expand...
AC is the opposite. The AC fluid needs to be circulated every month or so, or the seals dry out and fail.
So use it or loose it.;)
 
GrumpyGel said:
Arrrrr air con if only I wasn't to tight to use it (even though I probably burn more fuel carrying around all the dirt and rubbish from not cleaning the car!)

Having said that, I operate it on the same basis as the sunroof... if I use it, its going to break, so don't bother using it in the first place :D
Click to expand...
According to my MOT man, you need to run it regularly, just a few minutes a week to keep the rubber seals moist. Otherwise they dry out, shrink and that's when you get the gas leaking out, and then it won't work.
 
you said evac pressure test the regas - im no expert ( been watching too much scotty kilmore) but I am going for airlock - need to evac air and all then fill slowly.
 
SWalker said:
you said evac pressure test the regas - im no expert ( been watching too much scotty kilmore) but I am going for airlock - need to evac air and all then fill slowly.
Click to expand...
An airlock in a fridge system? If you learned that by watching that pillock i'd not be surprised!
I'm not an 'expert', but i did spend 18 years, building and testing prototype airconditioners and dehumidifiers. Plus fitting, repairing and servicing airconditioners and dehumidifiers to know that you don't get an airlock in them. Cooling systems yes, but fridge, no. For one thing, the first thing you do is evacuate all the air, then hold the vaxuum to check there isn't a leak before putting the refrigerant in.
Back when i was doing this everything was manual. You could hold the vacuum for as long as you want. My mate has a machine that's all automated. You just program the amount of gas to put in, connect up the hoses and press 'go'. It will then recover the gas, pull a vacuum, hold, then charge.
In my opinion it doesn't hold the vacuum long enough. If it did he wouldn't have had my Ibiza back twice to regas it!
Regassde it.
It leaked out.
Had it back to change the condensor seals, regassed.
It leaked.
Had it back again to be regassed with dye added.
It leaked.
I gave up...
 
LOL fair enough he is entertaining - jurys out on educational.... maybe a bit of lost in translation "air lock - air in the system", "pressure test - vacuum check"?
 
SWalker said:
LOL fair enough he is entertaining - jurys out on educational.... maybe a bit of lost in translation "air lock - air in the system", "pressure test - vacuum check"?
Click to expand...
I find the bloke bloody annoying!
No, i can believe he would think you'd get an air lock in the system, because he's a bloody idiot!
You evacuate all of the air because air contains moisture and that's one thing you do NOT want inside.
The way every system works is it condenses the gas into a liquid which is then pumped through a restriction, be it a TEV or a length of capillary. (imagine length of copper pipe with a BLOODY TINY 'ole up it) We used to use .036, .047 and i think, .064 thousandths of an inch. Mostly 047 though. When the high pressure liquid refrigerant passes through the restriction, into a much bigger bore pipe, usually 1/4 or 3/8 of an inch the pressure drops and due to the pressure drop evaporates. It is the process of the drop in pressure and evaporation that makes the gas become cold. I don't know why other than SCIENCE!
The reason why you don't want any moisture inside is because when the water exits the restriction it gets cold and freezes. which stops the flow so the evaporator(cold 'radiator') then warms up so the air passing through it also warms up. Then the ice melts, flow resumes, it all gets cold again until the water migrates around again and freezes again.
That's the case with capil systems anyway.
I don't think car aircon uses capil but a TEV which works like the needle in an SU carb.
Capils are used when the conditions are less varied. Also cheaper because there are less components and a length of capil is pence where as TEV is pounds.
Systems used in caravans that run on gas are different and i have never dealt with. But i'd bet you a hundred quid, that THEY don't get air locks either...:D
 
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