ACE or not?

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A

Alpinejim

Active Member
Posts
242
Location
Sunny Suffolk
I hear a lot of people complain that their ACE system doesn’t work properly and that it sometimes gets ripped out. Like the air suspension that people often rip out for springs.

I have a complete working ACE system from a scrapped car, is it worth retro fitting it to my main car?
I didn’t drive that scrapped vehicle much and so didn’t get to make up my mind if it’s a worthwhile system to have, surely Land Rover thought so.

I don’t understand why people take it out rather than repairing it, there doesn’t seem to be much to it.
I’d be interested to hear thoughts of people who have or have had ACE.
 
I prefer to keep things simple. The only benefit I sought from my D2 over the 110 I had is the ABS and TC.
Anything more is just something to go wrong. Just my opinion mind.
 
Like a lot of modern sh1t, when it's working it does a job, designed to counteract the body roll that could be felt on the D1.
But the roll on the D1 could be eliminated simply by fitting gas shockers, all round.
The D2 is longer true, but in France I live a long way up a twisty mountain road. One time it stopped working I took it down the road with three hairpins, so many tight bends we have never successfully counted them, but at least 45, a drop of 360 metres in 5 minutes. Although the ACE was locked as it decided not to function, I could not really feel much difference and I was looking for it, knowing the light was on. (When it is working you can hear the pump so it was not a case of it working but putting the light on too.)
People who have had trouble with it have had to faff about with it, it is tricky, sensitive and expensive to fix.
There are numerous threads on this system which can show this, although of course there are workarounds, but simply changing the pipes is no picnic.
So if mine ever gives me trouble I too will take it out, fix the AR bars and fit gas shocks.
Drive it as it is and if you get a strong urge to play with it then play, but don't expect it to be a picnic fitting it and don't get your hopes up that it'll work fantastically better than what you've got. But I really wouldn't worry about it. You'd be better off fitting gas shocks.
Just my opinion though, there are others who swear by it.
 
Alpinejim said:
My understanding of gas struts is that the gas helps prevent the oil from foaming. Not that they are stiffer. Or are they?
Click to expand...
Your correct, still an oil based damper with a pocket of gas to prevent oil from foaming and the damping function is lost. That’s all .
Originally designed for use were stiffer springs and dampers are required ie track use therefore there’s dampers are updated to be stiffer with different rebound rates etc for competition use.
 
ronsealdeath said:
My gas struts are firmer. I like ACE but its not worth a retro fit in any way. It would be a faff and you are sure to fracture pipes in the process.
Click to expand...

You gas struts are firmer because their designed for competition use not because of the small amount of gas inside, just the job for your track days no doubt :)
But damper are available that are updated and without the gas which are better for normal road use and comfort.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Like a lot of modern sh1t, when it's working it does a job, designed to counteract the body roll that could be felt on the D1. But the roll on the D1 could be eliminated simply by fitting gas shockers, all round.
Click to expand...
This isn't correct, shocks will not do what an anti roll system does. And certainly nothing close to a reactive anti roll system such as ACE. Claiming it does it just misinforming others.

Stanleysteamer said:
Although the ACE was locked as it decided not to function, I could not really feel much difference and I was looking for it
Click to expand...
I suspect it was working or was still providing anti roll capabilities. Without it there at all, as in removed from the vehicle. The D2 would be hugely different to drive. And you would notice unless you are completely numb to everything ;)
 
Alpinejim said:
I hear a lot of people complain that their ACE system doesn’t work properly and that it sometimes gets ripped out. Like the air suspension that people often rip out for springs.

I have a complete working ACE system from a scrapped car, is it worth retro fitting it to my main car?
I didn’t drive that scrapped vehicle much and so didn’t get to make up my mind if it’s a worthwhile system to have, surely Land Rover thought so.

I don’t understand why people take it out rather than repairing it, there doesn’t seem to be much to it.
I’d be interested to hear thoughts of people who have or have had ACE.
Click to expand...
If you think you could install it and get it working fairly easily. Then YES it is definitely worth it IMO. It transforms how they handle.

Ok, if you drive like Driving Miss Daisy you may not get the full benefit, but if you do throw it into some corners and especially on round abouts. It makes a huge difference. It will just stay flat, where a similar vehicle without ACE (RR, p38, D1, 90, 110) will roll and lean a lot. Even with anti-roll bars or even compared to uprated anti-roll bars and uprated suspension.
 
Evidently not a Land Rover.... :p

The Soarer uses active suspension to achieve very similar reactive anti-roll capabilities that ACE offers. Citroen also did something similar with the Xantia Activa.

As you can see, on a sporty coupe there is still a dramatic difference vs conventional anti-roll bars. I've never seen a like picture for the D2, but logic would suggest there would be a greater difference.

twocars.jpg
 
300bhp/ton said:
This isn't correct, shocks will not do what an anti roll system does. And certainly nothing close to a reactive anti roll system such as ACE. Claiming it does it just misinforming others.


I suspect it was working or was still providing anti roll capabilities. Without it there at all, as in removed from the vehicle. The D2 would be hugely different to drive. And you would notice unless you are completely numb to everything ;)
Click to expand...
Keep your hat on @300bhp/ton !
A/ I fitted Gas shocks, to a D1, on the advice of a bloke who runs a 4x4 garage and races the blessed things. The roll was much reduced. Don't care HOW or WHY it works, it just does!
B/ if you read the post properly, you would see that I said that the non-working ACE was locked and I knew it was not working cos I couldn't hear the pump and I know my vehicle so I know whether the pump is working or not. Or do you think it can work without the pump?
"LOCKED" means the anti roll bar was still there, it hadn't fallen off! So of course it was providing the anti-roll effect you would expect from any other anti-roll bar that doesn't have ACE fitted. ACE enhances the anti-roll effect of the ordinary anti-roll bar fitted.
C/ I never said gas shocks would replace the anti-roll bar, I simply said it would improve the anti-roll characteristics of the existing set up on a D1 which does not have ACE.
If you really want to improve an anti-roll bar you either fit a thicker one or you reposition the points where it attaches to the moving parts of the hub mountings, or both. That is the traditional way of doing it well known to people who design racing cars, rally cars, Rods, Customs, Kit Cars and other vehicles that owners want to modify for the road or track. D2s are different cos LR wanted to reduce the roll encountered on the D1 yet maintain the flexibility of the axles needed for taking the rucks off road. Stiffer anti-roll bars would mean wheels possibly losing contact with the ground when off road.
I have written in other publications extensively on springing, suspension, etc but I don't want to go on about this any more, don't want to leave you all numb!;););)
 
Stanleysteamer said:
fitted Gas shocks, to a D1, on the advice of a bloke who runs a 4x4 garage and races the blessed things. The roll was much reduced. Don't care HOW or WHY it works, it just does!
Click to expand...
Not true of course, I do know, sort of, gas shocks as other posters have mentioned, contain gas to stop foaming. BUT this gas is under pressure and a pressurised gas acts like a spring. Bit more spring = bit more stiffness. This is not the WHOLE reason it works, but at least part of it.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I know the system on my donor vehicle works. I have the body off so I can see the whole thing and how it works. It looks quite simple and I find it odd that it seems to cause some people a lot of headaches.
I can also remove it easily.
Retrofitting to my non ACE D2 is another matter though. Although, if I can replace the solid pipes with flexible hydraulic pipes, it should be a bit easier.
How has this been done by others? How easy is it to mod the solenoid block for new fittings?
 
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