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Aoyagi

Aoyagi

New Member
Posts
9
Location
North, EU, US. I move a lot
Hi, I'm looking for a replacement SUV (Shogun Sport) for the one that's falling apart at the parking lot now and no matter how I look at it, the RR P38 seems to come out as the best option.

Now I asked this on Reddit as well so I do apologise for any duplicity if you frequent both places. Is there any advantage of the P38 in terms of maintenance and/or reliability over the L322? Petrol engine in any case, if that's relevant. Since it's older, I'd expect it to be a simpler car from a time when LR didn't try to appease the luxobarge crowd so much with so many fancy features. But again, it's also an older car and new cars tend to be more reliable. I'm concerned with issues that would affect the car's mobility (e.g. it would get me stranded somewhere).

From what I found out, there may be cooling issues (making the car overheat) and obligatory air suspensions problems. And if the anecdotes are anything to go by, the car's either a relatively problem-free lovely vehicle that brings joy to its owner, or it's a headache on four wheels.

I'm also considering RR Sport, but I suspect it's notably less practical in terms of its cargo area (height, length)... but I haven't even found a photo or a video of P38's boot with folded rear seats, so it's only an assumption.

Thanks.
 
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Welcome:)

Much of what you know and stated is true I have to say.

My take is this.

A well maintained P38 can be a very reliable car as can the L322, but that’s the catch the well maintained bit.
All small niggles need to be sorted early before they develop into larger problems.

The P38 can be an electrical nightmare, but largely understood by some on here so can be sorted. The L322 is even more electronic and as such not so well known for how to fix. But still doable by guys on here.

Engine wise if you want petrol you are up in the V8 engines and will get the mpg expected from a V8. Unless fitted with LPG.
The L322 early models can suffer with weak engines and gearboxes. So beware. ( plenty of talk about it in Range Rover section).

If you buy a cheap 1 it will have problems :eek:
If you buy an expensive 1 it may still have problems:D

Some people buy thinking newer is better but sadly I don’t fully believe that. It can be so much down to previous owners, and believe others that when you buy test everything and don’t take any waffle “it’s been like that for ages and no problem” “ my mechanic said they all sound like that” from owner/salesman.

But all the woes aside.
All ours have been great cars and reliable, not without issues but on the whole we have no reason to complain over any other car.

You don’t say what you need it for but you are considering load space.
If you need it’s as a daily driver then expect to have to take a day off now and again until you have worked through the niggles/problem.

Don’t let me put you off we love ours as said earlier. But don’t rush in and buy the first cheap shiny one you see.

Good luck :)

J
 
Quite extensive, thanks!

marjon said:
The P38 can be an electrical nightmare, but largely understood by some on here so can be sorted. The L322 is even more electronic and as such not so well known for how to fix. But still doable by guys on here.
Click to expand...

If this is true, it's basically what I needed to hear to forget about an L322 altogether.

marjon said:
The L322 early models can suffer with weak engines and gearboxes. So beware. ( plenty of talk about it in Range Rover section).
Click to expand...

Yes, I heard that the BMW-era RRs are a bit of a pain, so I wouldn't really go into a pre-facelift one for fear of the gearbox falling apart. But again, those with the JLR V8s are not only quite hard to find on the market I need it at, but also too expensive considering the car would be a (hopefully beloved) tool with scratches and bruises very much expected.

marjon said:
You don’t say what you need it for but you are considering load space.
If you need it’s as a daily driver then expect to have to take a day off now and again until you have worked through the niggles/problem.
Click to expand...

I'd like to have one for several reasons

- supplying summer camps and doing any work you need a car for there (4x4 comes in very handy there, especially when it rains). Includes carrying 50L barrels, more or less half a tonne worth of water, in the car. And I need enough height to be able to fill them whilst they're inside, because I'm a lazy bum.
- medium-range tourism with sleeping in the car (and RR Sport's extended boot floor is a bit too short for that)
- daily driving when my other car is somehow incapacitated or simply when I feel like it
- teach myself some DIY that's more than just something on the level of "change the headlamp bulb".

marjon said:
Don’t let me put you off we love ours as said earlier. But don’t rush in and buy the first cheap shiny one you see.
Click to expand...

I was close to buying twice already. But first time (that was a fairly cheap L322), the car arrived to the dealership I had it checked at with its nose up, and rear down. The dealership listed an unbelievable amount of issues. Yet, the salesman kept repeating "come on, it's a 15 years old car". Second time it was actually a Range Rover Sport, but the way the salesmen behaved made me back off (they picked me up with the car so it was heated up, didn't bother to inform me the car's MOT was expired, and they had some financing fake advertising in play as well).

So yeah, I try. Thanks for for sharing your thoughts. :)
 
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Welcome :) - nowt wrong with the P38 now that decent diagnostics are available ..... And IMHO, you will NEED your own .... so this adds £400 to the budget...

The known issues with the V8's are well documented on here - so worth a search ....

If the aforementioned budget stretches to it, then I'd be looking at a Japanese re-import one - no rust, and very very very well looked after - cos that's what the japs do..... :)
 
Disco1BFG said:
Welcome :) - nowt wrong with the P38 now that decent diagnostics are available ..... And IMHO, you will NEED your own .... so this adds £400 to the budget...

The known issues with the V8's are well documented on here - so worth a search ....

If the aforementioned budget stretches to it, then I'd be looking at a Japanese re-import one - no rust, and very very very well looked after - cos that's what the japs do..... :)
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Well I think I'd have to use someone else's diagnostics, at least for a while. £400 is a lot considering how much the cars go for! But number of people suggest this, so it is somewhere on the list.

To clarify, I'm looking at LHD ones. Continental Europe use. Wouldn't be able to afford to run it back in the UK anyway.
 
Don’t totally discount the diesel P38, still a very capable engine.
Again not without it’s problems though.
Unless you just hate diesels and want/need the V8. ( which I totally understand:D)

And please consider diagnostics very high on your list, lots of garages don’t like a P38 in Europe.( the way I understand it) You will be surprised how quickly you would get your investment back if you have niggles to work through.


J
 
I avoid diesels. Can't stand their sound and the smell, or really the driving characteristics. I wouldn't buy one for myself even if I know it's the better fuel for this kind of application for economical and errr...toquical reasons. I'd be fine with a (nonexistent) V6 petrol engine, but I admit that I do find some V8s intoxicating.
 
L322 have same air suspension issues etc As P38 but more electrical/computer and steering components. Both are doable but are different.

The P38 V8s come in 4.0 or 4.6 with different management systems Gems/Thor. If you get one with good HG’s and gearbox, drives straight like a train with no cooling issues you’ll have a good one. Financially you’d want one with a modern type LPG system already fitted,
The advantage to the Diesel is an L6 with a turbo, which will give same or more power as a petrol when tweaked but only needs one fuel tank. It has very typical diesel driving characteristics so I understand why they would not appeal to you

Welcome to LandyZone :)
 
RangeRoller dt said:
The P38 V8s come in 4.0 or 4.6 with different management systems Gems/Thor. If you get one with good HG’s and gearbox, drives straight like a train with no cooling issues you’ll have a good one. Financially you’d want one with a modern type LPG system already fitted :)
Click to expand...

I think I read about the management systems before. Does that mean it varies between the 4.0 and 4.6, or did both sizes come with different management systems in time? Also I can't think of what could "HG" mean. Probably not high gears...

Yeah, an LPG system with a toroidal tank would be great. As for cooling issues, I presume there's little chance to spot those during a half an hour test drive, eh?
 
The 95-late 98 P38 had the GEMS EMS Which is the Generic engine Mangaement system.

98-2002 had the Thor V8.

Gems and Thor both have their ups and downs.

Gems are more rev happy but lack a bit of low end torque,

Thor were redesigned to a degree, reinforcement to the bottom end and a mid 90s Bosch fuel injection system was fitted along with a new manifold which provided improved low end grunt 406nm compared to 380nm.

But it was slightly less rev happy and had less bhp 214 compared to 225hp.

The Thor thanks to better TPS mapping and all of the above will feel faster and tbf the better low end makes for a less obtrusive power delivery, A more luxurious feel is the result, and they tow like you wouldn't belive.

The Thor is also slightly more economical.
I'd avoid the 4.0 Gems
A 4.0 Thor will be on par with the 4.6 Gems
A 4.6 Thor is in a league of its own ;)

Maintenance is key for these motors.

Make sure it has plenty of grunt, if it feels flat or runs like dog shít walk away..

Both the 4.0 and 4.6 have the same system year depending.

Slipped liners are common if overheated
Waterpump failure
Headgasket failure
Cam and Tappet excessive wear
Exhaust manifold gasket leaks
Front cover leaks
Timing chain stretch
etc etc

A
 
As a P38a owner, I am biased of course but they are sufficiently Luxo-Barge without so much of the electronic "wuck-fittery" that plagues the L322 and later models.
If you are wanting V8 power and doing "miles" then get one with Sequential LPG already fitted (AND WORKING).
Change the oil often (don't skimp) and get the services done on time/every-time.
Alternatively, a good and well looked after Doozle P38a is also a good buy (if you can find the right one).
 
Henry_b said:
The 95-late 98 P38 had the GEMS EMS Which is the Generic engine Mangaement system.

98-2002 had the Thor V8.

Gems and Thor both have their ups and downs.

Gems are more rev happy but lack a bit of low end torque,

Thor were redesigned to a degree, reinforcement to the bottom end and a mid 90s Bosch fuel injection system was fitted along with a new manifold which provided improved low end grunt 406nm compared to 380nm.

But it was slightly less rev happy and had less bhp 214 compared to 225hp.

The Thor thanks to better TPS mapping and all of the above will feel faster and tbf the better low end makes for a less obtrusive power delivery, A more luxurious feel is the result, and they tow like you wouldn't belive.

The Thor is also slightly more economical.
I'd avoid the 4.0 Gems
A 4.0 Thor will be on par with the 4.6 Gems
A 4.6 Thor is in a league of its own ;)

Maintenance is key for these motors.

Make sure it has plenty of grunt, if it feels flat or runs like dog shít walk away..

Both the 4.0 and 4.6 have the same system year depending.

Slipped liners are common if overheated
Waterpump failure
Headgasket failure
Cam and Tappet excessive wear
Exhaust manifold gasket leaks
Front cover leaks
Timing chain stretch
etc etc

A
Click to expand...

I see, thank you. So basically 98+ are the ones to go for. Any way I can tell just by quick inspection? For example, telling the BMW and JLR L322s apart is fairly easy thanks to the headlights.

As for the issues you listed, it doesn't sound like something I could actually have a look at during a test drive. But wow, I'm really looking forward to going from 250 NM to 400. No more issues merging with a full car!
 
Aoyagi said:
I see, thank you. So basically 98+ are the ones to go for. Any way I can tell just by quick inspection? For example, telling the BMW and JLR L322s apart is fairly easy thanks to the headlights.

As for the issues you listed, it doesn't sound like something I could actually have a look at during a test drive. But wow, I'm really looking forward to going from 250 NM to 400. No more issues merging with a full car!
Click to expand...

You'd hear most of the above.

A heavy tapping when hot is slipped Liners.
Light tapping when cold is Tappets but that can also stay permanently if they're worn.
Timing chain is a clatter.
The P38 is what you will be getting 98+ yr 2000 they're Ford but with BMW stuff added on.

The L322 is a different beast altogether that runs from 2002-2012.
P38 is 1995-2002.

400nm is grunty but it isn't fast per'se.

Also MPG is to consider you'd be lucky to see 16mpg the V8 is thirsty..
On a run you might see 20mpg but that is rare. 13-16 is the general area.
 
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