98 manual trans trouble (Solved: friction disk failure)

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 1, 2018

For the last week I have struggled with a new issue that has my discovery unable to be tearing it up in the snow. My searches for similar issues didn't result in same problem like mine that I noticed.

Problem occurred when going through heavy snow and was struggling to get through. So I switch to Lo but nothing happened when placed in gear and released clutch. Tried switching back to Hi but still no engagement of clutch when depressing pedal with shifter in gear. It is like the clutch plate is stuck disengaged.The clutch pedal has normal resistance and spring back. Also able to shift into each gear smoothly without pressing the clutch with engine running.

Given my current lacking indoor space and poor weather outside(this is Iceland), pulling the transmission and transfer case and opening them up is the last thing I want to do but will if it comes to that.

So, thoughts? bent/broken shifter fork? Clutch arm? input/output shaft ruined? faulty clutch plate?

Joemac434 · Feb 1, 2018

Sound s like the centre has gone out of the clutch if there's no drive in any position

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 1, 2018

Joemac434 said:
Sound s like the centre has gone out of the clutch if there's no drive in any position

I was thinking of that option also. If that is the worst of it then I could go with that. As long as the input shaft isn't toast it isn't a catastrophe.

I do not have an engine lift so taking the transmission out will be tricky since I cannot remove motor but I think it is possible. Since the body is lifted 4'' from the frame and it's sitting on 38'' tires I can lots of extra room underneath.

dieseldog69 · Feb 1, 2018

Tranny is a mighty lump to heave around with both boxes attached, by any chance do you have access to a friendly farmer with a forklift?

I've used forklifts and even excavators in the past to lift out engines and transmissions, you could have everything ready to pull it out and he only needs be there for an hour, pop it out and help get it on the hoist, you can sit him down with a nice breakfast and a cuppa while you change the clutch, spigot bush and fork arm, then once he's done eating he can help you put it back in, half a dozen bolts in it and he can go back to his cows/sheep/pigs, you may need to pass over a few beer tokens too but the breakkie will ease him into the idea.

Joemac434 · Feb 1, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
I was thinking of that option also. If that is the worst of it then I could go with that. As long as the input shaft isn't toast it isn't a catastrophe.

I do not have an engine lift so taking the transmission out will be tricky since I cannot remove motor but I think it is possible. Since the body is lifted 4'' from the frame and it's sitting on 38'' tires I can lots of extra room underneath.

Either way the box will have to come out to get a proper answer ,just keep your fingers crossed it is only the clutch and it won't be too bad a job ,good luck with it

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 1, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Tranny is a mighty lump to heave around with both boxes attached, by any chance do you have access to a friendly farmer with a forklift?

I've used forklifts and even excavators in the past to lift out engines and transmissions, you could have everything ready to pull it out and he only needs be there for an hour, pop it out and help get it on the hoist, you can sit him down with a nice breakfast and a cuppa while you change the clutch, spigot bush and fork arm, then once he's done eating he can help you put it back in, half a dozen bolts in it and he can go back to his cows/sheep/pigs, you may need to pass over a few beer tokens too but the breakkie will ease him into the idea.

I was hoping to do a job that large once the spring comes. Or when I have more funds for replacing all the things needed when its all out

I actually have a small tractor with a front loader so it will lift the engine out fine.

Given the extra clearance in the trans tunnel and height from the ground, wouldn't it be fairly possible to remove the transfer case first, then the transmission from underneath?

Joemac434 · Feb 1, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
I was hoping to do a job that large once the spring comes. Or when I have more funds for replacing all the things needed when its all out

I actually have a small tractor with a front loader so it will lift the engine out fine.

Given the extra clearance in the trans tunnel and height from the ground, wouldn't it be fairly possible to remove the transfer case first, then the transmission from underneath?

Yes should be possible,any thing you can take off from underneath will help with maneovering it out of the engine bay

blueovalcraig · Feb 2, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
So I switch to Lo but nothing happened when placed in gear and released clutch. Tried switching back to Hi but still no engagement of clutch when depressing pedal with shifter in gear. It is like the clutch plate is stuck disengaged.The clutch pedal has normal resistance and spring back. Also able to shift into each gear smoothly without pressing the clutch with engine running.

Mine is currently sitting in a garage waiting to be looked at with the same symptoms as you have.

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 2, 2018

If it wasn't for an already planned weekend out of town, I'd have this apart and moving along.

I've ruled out slave cylinder, shifter fork, fork pinion failures

I checked out a few videos on transmission removal for this model and I believe I can do it without any engine removal.
Just have the remove the usual connections, cross member, and I'll be able to slide it out in two pieces. Given the amount of body lift it has, reaching all the bolts won't be as bad as they normally would be.

I'm hoping it is a simple clutch disk failure at this point.

At this stage I'm going to search for various seals, bolts, etc that I will need and want to replace once I have things taken out along with any possible upgrades.

blueovalcraig · Feb 2, 2018

Watching with interest. If I had a garage at my house I'd be doing the job myself but I gave up wrestling with gearboxes on driveways a long time ago.

jamesmartin · Feb 2, 2018

id try the high low selector on t/box top first there might be issues with the cable etc not actually selecting

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 2, 2018

jamesmartin said:
id try the high low selector on t/box top first there might be issues with the cable etc not actually selecting

I already messed around with those links and connections. Nothing out of the ordinary as they are actually quite solid and don't suffer from common looseness from longtime wear.

blueovalcraig said:
Watching with interest. If I had a garage at my house I'd be doing the job myself but I gave up wrestling with gearboxes on driveways a long time ago.

Here is me some years ago doing exactly that. I am so happy to have the space I do now to do inside work.

Seeing as how this is a transmission put in by the previous owner my luck wil be either good or bad on what the issue is.

jamesmartin · Feb 2, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
I already messed around with those links and connections. Nothing out of the ordinary as they are actually quite solid and don't suffer from common looseness from longtime wear.

Here is me some years ago doing exactly that. I am so happy to have the space I do now to do inside work.View attachment 140899

Seeing as how this is a transmission put in by the previous owner my luck wil be either good or bad on what the issue is.

so your a 100% its full engaging high and low

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 2, 2018

jamesmartin said:
so your a 100% its full engaging high and low

As far as I am able to tell without it taken out. Changing between Hi and Lo was always difficult but it still switches into both the same way it always has since I have had it.

Failure of the transfer case is an unfortunate fear

jamesmartin · Feb 2, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
As far as I am able to tell without it taken out. Changing between Hi and Lo was always difficult but it still switches into both the same way it always has since I have had it.

Failure of the transfer case is an unfortunate fear

you could jack a front wheel up, a feeling difference in resistance

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 7, 2018

blueovalcraig said:
Mine is currently sitting in a garage waiting to be looked at with the same symptoms as you have.

The garage work on yours yet? I might find out the problem today.

Currently have mine on a friend's lift and spent the morning getting everything unhooked except a few top bolts so far. Back to it once I finish lunch ☺

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 7, 2018

Alright so it seems like the culprit has been found!

The clutch friction disk was toast. Ever bit of friction material and some of the steel turned to powder. This makes sense when thinking on the fact I had an issue with it losing speed going up hills when traveling at highway speed. No other hints came like noise, smell, other power loss. However it is a stock clutch of whoknows how old age and with the larger tires, the stresses on it were too much. Taking it though the snow finally had done it in.

Now for the visuals

Joemac434 · Feb 7, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
Alright so it seems like the culprit has been found!

The clutch friction disk was toast. Ever bit of friction material and some of the steel turned to powder. This makes sense when thinking on the fact I had an issue with it losing speed going up hills when traveling at highway speed. No other hints came like noise, smell, other power loss. However it is a stock clutch of whoknows how old age and with the larger tires, the stresses on it were too much. Taking it though the snow finally had done it in.

Now for the visuals
View attachment 141404 View attachment 141406

Was nice to be right for a change then for me! Glad that's all it was and no serious damage,will you put a heavier duty one back in?

Whatisthatmetric · Feb 7, 2018

Joemac434 said:
Was nice to be right for a change then for me! Glad that's all it was and no serious damage,will you put a heavier duty one back in?

Oh yes I will definitely be putting a stronger one in. I'm searching now where to get one from. Unfortunately my go to online store only has stock. I use lrparts.net because they have a great inventory and use TNT shipping for sending stuff to Iceland which saves me a TON compared to other shipping methods. Got any suggested UK sites/dealers who may also use TNT?

Joemac434 · Feb 7, 2018

Whatisthatmetric said:
Oh yes I will definitely be putting a stronger one in. I'm searching now where to get one from. Unfortunately my go to online store only has stock. I use lrparts.net because they have a great inventory and use TNT shipping for sending stuff to Iceland which saves me a TON compared to other shipping methods. Got any suggested UK sites/dealers who may also use TNT?

I use someone called jgs4x4 in UK but don't know what they would charge to send to you.might be expensive.Has the clutch damaged the face of the flywheel? I'd be surprised if not,when they wear so far it usually scars the face of it and it's either a case of reworking it or fit a new one

98 manual trans trouble (Solved: friction disk failure)

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