6-Wheel Drive Discovery II - Am I totally mad ?

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dave658 said:
Work Still To Be Carried Out

I've posted my progress so far, but there is still quite a lot to do,

The body is looking really good now, but the chassis is not quite finished, I need to lift the body off and modify the mounts for the new powertrain, it then needs blasting to remove the surface rust (it is structurally very good, which is rare in itself !) - I then need to decide how to protect and finish it. I had thought of galvanizing, but was told that galvanizing works well on new steel, but not so well on old. Electrophoretic plating is my current favourite I think, followed by either painting or powder coating - does anyone have any thoughts on this ?

I did put a post on the tech help forum of another site asking for some meaurements from a V8 chassis, as I stupidly sold my engine before taking some vital measurements myself, so if anyone can help out on that, please do take a look athttp://thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50224

The axles and radius arms etc need similar treatment, all three axles are going to have ashcroft air lockers fitted, and entirely custom brakes - 330mm disc with 6-pot calipers at the front, 300mm disc with 4-pot calipers on the rear. The rear axle will also have handbrake calipers fitted, but I haven't decided yet whether to have an additional handbrake on the 2nd axle.

I will have the chassis fully built up with axles, engine, gearbox, propshafts, brake, air and fuel lines etc before re-marrying it with the body

The wiring is all done, but the interior needs finishing off, I have two new roofliners, which need cutting and joining, plus the trim and carpet needs completing. My fabricators are making new front seat bases as we speak, and the two front seats are from an L322 vogue. It has regular D2 bench seat behind and standard jump seats in the very back, but an additional rear facing 2 seater bench behind the regular bench making 9 seats in total. Not all seats are the same colour right now though, so some re-trimming is needed.

So how long is all this going to take ? I would love to complete it this year, but I suspect that's a tall order, but I really want it ready for the 2017 show circuit

If anyone local to me of a similar crazy mentality fancies helping out with any of the work, I can supply non-stop tea and biscuits and of course eternal gratitude !
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Good luck with your project ,quite something it makes my refurb of a 2door range rover look dull. Keep up the good work it looks good
 
dave658 said:
OK, so a little maths with regard to turning circles :
dr3.gif



  • sin a = W/R
    Where
    R is the turning radius or half the turning circle
    W is the distance between axles
    a is the maximum angle of the steering wheels

    I was going to get out in all this lovely rain and measure a, but as we already know the turning circle of a D2 (with standard steering locks) is 11m, we can calculate a as 27.5 degrees,
    Now, assuming that I don't change the steering geometry (and to be fair, I probably will), this means that we can calculate the turning circle centred on the 3rd axle and the mean of the two

    3rd axle turning circle = 15.5m
    mean axle turning circle = 13.3m

    Clearly this is a huge difference, and shows just how significant tyre scrub will be on full lock, not to mention the problems of doing a 3-point turn on a vehicle that is already poor when I've just added 2.3m to the turning circle !

    I will definitely look into axle lift more and report back, thanks for the heads up !
Click to expand...

The difference in turning circle will be greater than the geometry calculation shows, as front tyre scrub / slipage with the extra resistance of the twin rear axles will not have been accounted for.

I used to shunt twin axle 40ft trailers about using on of the dockyard shunter units, it had a hydraulically raising 5th wheel, I learnt that raising or lowering the front of the trailer would change the turning characteristics.
So sadly it's something I learnt by messing about, not cos I'm technically competent.
 
markSX said:
The difference in turning circle will be greater than the geometry calculation shows, as front tyre scrub / slipage with the extra resistance of the twin rear axles will not have been accounted for.

I used to shunt twin axle 40ft trailers about using on of the dockyard shunter units, it had a hydraulically raising 5th wheel, I learnt that raising or lowering the front of the trailer would change the turning characteristics.
So sadly it's something I learnt by messing about, not cos I'm technically competent.
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All things being equal, I would normally agree, but as I mentioned in the post, I will probably adjust the front steering geometry to re-align the Ackerman angle to lie on the mean axle, so the calculation should remain valid
 
I wouldn't worry about changing the geometry at the front - LR didn't when they built the 90, RR/Disco 100, 110, 130 and 150 using exactly the same front steery bits!

Accurate Ackermann doesn't work with all different radii and the simple short track rod, and in any case, trying to get 'exact Ackermann' isn't necessarily such a great thing for higher speed cornering anyway. Have a look at 'reverse Ackermann' - largely it got explored when people began to realise how tyres actually work.

edit. ps. Changing that part of the front geometry would be a bit non-trivial too!
 
dave658 said:
Oh absolutely, colour is a very personal choice, you will never get a colour and trim combination that works for everyone. For me, it was always going to be black and chrome, and I love the Santorini Black

When she's done, the bumper trim and headlight trims will also be black, the door handles will be chrome, the arches will have their proper trim and the coach line with chrome accents will be fitted, try to imagine it also with 20" diamond cut wheels and it think it will look mean, but that's just me ;)
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with the colour why I didn't quite like it after the paint shop to be honest I love the colour combination, I just think it's because it's go no windows etc in on that picture. Although as I said before its growing rapidly on me and also I can imagine it finished with the chrome etc and my honest opinion I think it will be mint finished and can't wait too see it finished!!

Josh
 
Re axle lift , as my forum name suggests have some experience with 6 wheel rovers , I found even with low mileage usage (Tacr2a Rangerover) as not a shopping sort of vehicle , as you alluded to, tyre wear is considerable . I also have experience of HGV with lift axles and resultant changes to maneuverability.
I did experiment with practical result of unloading rear axle , by using spring compressors (2 pair) on the third axle in situ , almost equivalent to using a air susp as suggested by pressurising axle 2 and dumping air from 3 .
I pumped up axle two tyres to compensate for dip as they took extra load, the water load was also dumped.
It did make a significant difference to turn radius , so would suggest being a useful feature to have for relatively little extra complexity. I don't think having a active axle lift system as per HGV would be cost/benefit viable .
 
tacr2man said:
Re axle lift , as my forum name suggests have some experience with 6 wheel rovers , I found even with low mileage usage (Tacr2a Rangerover) as not a shopping sort of vehicle , as you alluded to, tyre wear is considerable . I also have experience of HGV with lift axles and resultant changes to maneuverability.
I did experiment with practical result of unloading rear axle , by using spring compressors (2 pair) on the third axle in situ , almost equivalent to using a air susp as suggested by pressurising axle 2 and dumping air from 3 .
I pumped up axle two tyres to compensate for dip as they took extra load, the water load was also dumped.
It did make a significant difference to turn radius , so would suggest being a useful feature to have for relatively little extra complexity. I don't think having a active axle lift system as per HGV would be cost/benefit viable .
Click to expand...

Thank you for backing up my thoughts with your practical experience.
 
Well I was hoping to retain my original chassis number and by extension, my 03 registration, but the DVLA has insisted (not surprisingly really) that this is a radically altered vehicle (bit of an understatement) and will therefore require a new chassis number, which they have issued, and will need to undergo an IVA test before receiving its new Q reg.

I have a letter of authority from the DVLA to have the new chassis number stamped on the vehicle, and regulations require that the under bonnet plate is changed also to match this new number. Luckily, Land Rover in their wisdom, print the part number of the under-bonnet chassis plate on the plate itself - RWE000030 which has now been superceded by LR048321, which I have now bought and can get stamped to match, |I'll also update the paint and trim codes while I'm at it to match the new colour schemes.

The plate that is visible through a little window in the windscreen does not apparently, legally need to be changed, but the OCD in me says that it is going to need to match. but I can't find a number for this one, it's not printed on the existing plate, and it is not shown in the parts catalogues (but then neither was the under-bonnet plate), I may need to get it custom manufactured unless anyone happens to know the part number ?!? Anyone :)
 
I've got to stamp mine too - and wondering whether to buy an expensive set of punches that I'll never use again.

Just googled and found Altis in Petersfield do hire them out - just wrote and asked what size they are. Might drop by the local hire shop and see if they do.
 
boguing said:
I've got to stamp mine too - and wondering whether to buy an expensive set of punches that I'll never use again.

Just googled and found Altis in Petersfield do hire them out - just wrote and asked what size they are. Might drop by the local hire shop and see if they do.
Click to expand...

You're only just down the road from where I work (Holmbury St Mary). If you do decide to buy a set of punches, I'll go halfs with you !
 
roger352 said:
Holy sh"t what a build, can't wait to see the finished article.
Click to expand...

Lol, thanks, it is amazing however how the really complex stuff goes quite smoothly, because it's all planned out to the tiniest detail, but it's the stuff you wouldn't expect that takes ages. Like you wouldn't believe how many days I've spent trying to decide what wheels I want. The huge brakes require a 20" wheel, and I would like minimal spokes so that the discs and calipers are very visible. I also think that 5 spokes look good on a 5 stud hub, and I want a polished silver, almost chrome finish. Sounds quite specific you would think, but there are sooo many wheels that fit those criteria and I just can't make my mind up.

I quite like the wolfrace GB quinto, but I would have to have them diamond-cut and clear powder coated - what does anyone think ?

wolfrace_gb_quinto_silver.jpg
 
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dave658 said:
You're only just down the road from where I work (Holmbury St Mary). If you do decide to buy a set of punches, I'll go halfs with you !
Click to expand...

Hah, I'm over in Gomshall tomorrow, which is where some of my bits are getting machined!

I've just spoken to Altis, and the chap (John) who would know where they are is on holiday, so I'm to call next week. They would post them out - so may well be the most sensible option if they have them. (I could hire them and send them on to you to use and return). eBay looks like £80+ for numbers and letters, so could do a split if hire doesn't happen.

I'll have A-M and even numbers?
 
boguing said:
Hah, I'm over in Gomshall tomorrow, which is where some of my bits are getting machined!

I've just spoken to Altis, and the chap (John) who would know where they are is on holiday, so I'm to call next week. They would post them out - so may well be the most sensible option if they have them. (I could hire them and send them on to you to use and return). eBay looks like £80+ for numbers and letters, so could do a split if hire doesn't happen.

I'll have A-M and even numbers?
Click to expand...
Oh well, I have an S, V & W in my new VIN, but it was worth a try

Who is doing the machining in Gomshall ? I didn't know there were any machine shops there
 
I'm going to ask on the general and wanted forums to see if anybody will lend us some - if not then hire, and failing that buy?

Machining? Gomshall? I could tell you, but then I'd have to k...
 
Well it's taken a LOT longer than I thought, but the engine is ready to go in the chassis. So this weekend, weather permitting, The mighty V8 will be hoisted from it's mount and lowered into the bonnet. I still need to fabricate mounts for it, but it is best to offer it up in-situ first I think and see how much space I've got, so I'll wedge it in with some wooden blocks in the first instance. Take some measurements and fabricate accordingly. Should look awesome in the engine bay so, so I'll take and post some pics as I progress - wish me luck !

By the way, the modded headlights are back and look awesome, so I may get round to fitting them too if I have time !

IMG_2301_small.jpg


IMG_2303_small.jpg
 
I was wondering what happened to you.. And this has reminded me about the punches, so I just spoke to Altis and they're having a hunt about and will call me tomorrow.

I do like the lights!
 
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