4x4 newbie. Rude and Intimidating Service

4x4 newbie. Rude and Intimidating Service - Jurie Swart Motors, Cape Town
South Africa

I want to buy a 4x4, but I am new to the 4x4 market. I am a first time buyer
in the off-road market. I went to Jurie Swart Bakkie Dealership in Cape
Town three weeks ago and explained "newbie staturs" to one of their salesmen
Pieter, requesting to test drive 3 different cars, so I could get the feel
of them. I drove a 3.0L colt rodeo petrol, an Isuzu frontier and a 2.4L
Hardbody diesel. I did not find the Nissan powerful enough, and it
shuddered on the road, nor did I like the Isuzu -it was noisy and old. The
2003 3L Colt Petrol was great, but I since I want to use the vehicle for
off-road, I wanted to test drive the diesel version first to compare torque
at low revs. I also wanted to drive a more powerful hardbody, to give
Nissan a fair judgment. Jurie Swart didn't have these vehicles in stock, so
I told Pieter I would return in a few weeks. I returned today, 3 weeks
later, and received the rudest service from Pieter ever.

Today, I took time off work, drove though to Jurie Swart with a friend, to
see if you had anything new. There were 2 colt 2.8 turbo diesels -exactly
what I wanted to try! I asked Pieter if I could test drive them and maybe
one other vehicle (I wanted to see if they had a Hardbody in stock, one with
a larger engine size than previously). Pieter rudely told me I could only
test them IF I was going to buy one this time. I told him that I couldn't
give him that guarantee, but that I would probably buy in the next one or
two weeks, once I was sure what I wanted. His answer was that in that case I
could not testdrive any vehicles! I thought he was joking. I asked him if he
was being serious. He said that he was not joking and that he was being
serious. I could NOT test drive the vehicles. My friend politely told him
that this was bad service and that maybe we should take our money elsewhere.
He told us to go do that then, turned his back and walked off.

Needless to say, we left, went round the corner and saw a Charl Smit and
Engelie Haupt at Mitsubishi motors, from whom I received excellent service
and from whom I shall probably be purchasing my first 4x4.

4x4 dealerships need to realise that first-time buyers are on a major
learning curve. To us, its not like buying any other car. There are a lot
of new concepts we need to get our mind around, and vehicles we need to
test. To reveive such intimidating and rude service is unacceptable.
Dealerships who want a sustained competitive advantage over others need to
offer kind, helpful and patient service to newbie buyers.

Brent Murphy

want some cheese w that WHINE?!

Your Friend Pieter Feeds his family with sales,
He obviously spent time with you before test driving the first batch of
cars, and went home to wife and family saying - No sale today dear - Maybe
next week"
This week you come back wanting to test a new batch - Pieter may have been
rude, but his refusal to let you test the cars is understandable, you
obviously are not ready to buy, and test driving with you m,ay actually take
him away from a Buying Customer waiting in the lobby. Perhaps if Salesmen
earned $100 (US) for each test drive it would be different, but you
mentioned taking the day off work for this as if losing a days pay was
important to you, well think about it, losing a days pay is also important
to Pieter. Pieter isn't paid to take you on a ride. And after you test all
the cars and decide which one you want, you will probably sit down with the
salesman and insist on the lowest price, even threatening to go to a lower
priced dealer down the street who never had to spend any of his own time
letting you joyride.

Think about the other guy for a minute - Would you want to take a
refridgerator home to see how it looks for free. At least offer Pieter $50
(US) to take his wife to dinner when he explains he spent all day with you
again, and didn't make a dime.

"Brent Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 4x4 newbie. Rude and Intimidating Service - Jurie Swart Motors, Cape Town
> South Africa
>
> I want to buy a 4x4, but I am new to the 4x4 market. I am a first time
buyer
> in the off-road market. I went to Jurie Swart Bakkie Dealership in Cape
> Town three weeks ago and explained "newbie staturs" to one of their
salesmen
> Pieter, requesting to test drive 3 different cars, so I could get the feel
> of them. I drove a 3.0L colt rodeo petrol, an Isuzu frontier and a 2.4L
> Hardbody diesel. I did not find the Nissan powerful enough, and it
> shuddered on the road, nor did I like the Isuzu -it was noisy and old.
The
> 2003 3L Colt Petrol was great, but I since I want to use the vehicle for
> off-road, I wanted to test drive the diesel version first to compare
torque
> at low revs. I also wanted to drive a more powerful hardbody, to give
> Nissan a fair judgment. Jurie Swart didn't have these vehicles in stock,
so
> I told Pieter I would return in a few weeks. I returned today, 3 weeks
> later, and received the rudest service from Pieter ever.
>
> Today, I took time off work, drove though to Jurie Swart with a friend, to
> see if you had anything new. There were 2 colt 2.8 turbo diesels -exactly
> what I wanted to try! I asked Pieter if I could test drive them and maybe
> one other vehicle (I wanted to see if they had a Hardbody in stock, one
with
> a larger engine size than previously). Pieter rudely told me I could only
> test them IF I was going to buy one this time. I told him that I couldn't
> give him that guarantee, but that I would probably buy in the next one or
> two weeks, once I was sure what I wanted. His answer was that in that case
I
> could not testdrive any vehicles! I thought he was joking. I asked him if
he
> was being serious. He said that he was not joking and that he was being
> serious. I could NOT test drive the vehicles. My friend politely told him
> that this was bad service and that maybe we should take our money
elsewhere.
> He told us to go do that then, turned his back and walked off.
>
> Needless to say, we left, went round the corner and saw a Charl Smit and
> Engelie Haupt at Mitsubishi motors, from whom I received excellent service
> and from whom I shall probably be purchasing my first 4x4.
>
> 4x4 dealerships need to realise that first-time buyers are on a major
> learning curve. To us, its not like buying any other car. There are a
lot
> of new concepts we need to get our mind around, and vehicles we need to
> test. To reveive such intimidating and rude service is unacceptable.
> Dealerships who want a sustained competitive advantage over others need to
> offer kind, helpful and patient service to newbie buyers.
>
> Brent Murphy
>
>

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:34:10 -0700, "xyzzy" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Your Friend Pieter Feeds his family with sales,
>He obviously spent time with you before test driving the first batch of
>cars, and went home to wife and family saying - No sale today dear - Maybe
>next week"
>This week you come back wanting to test a new batch - Pieter may have been
>rude, but his refusal to let you test the cars is understandable, you
>obviously are not ready to buy, and test driving with you m,ay actually take
>him away from a Buying Customer waiting in the lobby. Perhaps if Salesmen
>earned $100 (US) for each test drive it would be different, but you
>mentioned taking the day off work for this as if losing a days pay was
>important to you, well think about it, losing a days pay is also important
>to Pieter. Pieter isn't paid to take you on a ride. And after you test all
>the cars and decide which one you want, you will probably sit down with the
>salesman and insist on the lowest price, even threatening to go to a lower
>priced dealer down the street who never had to spend any of his own time
>letting you joyride.
>
>Think about the other guy for a minute - Would you want to take a
>refridgerator home to see how it looks for free. At least offer Pieter $50
>(US) to take his wife to dinner when he explains he spent all day with you
>again, and didn't make a dime.


While I agree that Petey may not have made a sale on the first day or
the second, his job as a salesman is to sell cars for this dealership,
period. While a saleman loves the quick sale, realistically, a buyer
is going to make more than one trip to the dealership and a GOOD
salesman will accomodate this. There is absolutely no excuse for him
to be rude.

Now, the original poster is also telling us the tale he wants us to
hear. We don't really know how he treated Petey or how big of a pain
in the butt he (the poster) was during the process. If he was
friendly and told Petey up front the whole situation, then he
shouldn't have received the treatment he did upon returning.

While Petey may only be concerned about HIS sale, his management might
feel a little different. Not only has Petey lost a sale, but he has
lost himself and the dealership future sales from the poster and
referrels he may have made. The dealership also potentially lost
service work and even accessory sales. Bottom line, this is not the
way a professional salesman works.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

"Matt Mead" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:34:10 -0700, "xyzzy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Your Friend Pieter Feeds his family with sales,
> >He obviously spent time with you before test driving the first batch of
> >cars, and went home to wife and family saying - No sale today dear -
Maybe
> >next week"
> >This week you come back wanting to test a new batch - Pieter may have
been
> >rude, but his refusal to let you test the cars is understandable, you
> >obviously are not ready to buy, and test driving with you m,ay actually
take
> >him away from a Buying Customer waiting in the lobby. Perhaps if Salesmen
> >earned $100 (US) for each test drive it would be different, but you
> >mentioned taking the day off work for this as if losing a days pay was
> >important to you, well think about it, losing a days pay is also
important
> >to Pieter. Pieter isn't paid to take you on a ride. And after you test
all
> >the cars and decide which one you want, you will probably sit down with
the
> >salesman and insist on the lowest price, even threatening to go to a
lower
> >priced dealer down the street who never had to spend any of his own time
> >letting you joyride.
> >
> >Think about the other guy for a minute - Would you want to take a
> >refridgerator home to see how it looks for free. At least offer Pieter
$50
> >(US) to take his wife to dinner when he explains he spent all day with
you
> >again, and didn't make a dime.
>
>
> While I agree that Petey may not have made a sale on the first day or
> the second, his job as a salesman is to sell cars for this dealership,
> period. While a saleman loves the quick sale, realistically, a buyer
> is going to make more than one trip to the dealership and a GOOD
> salesman will accomodate this. There is absolutely no excuse for him
> to be rude.
>
> Now, the original poster is also telling us the tale he wants us to
> hear. We don't really know how he treated Petey or how big of a pain
> in the butt he (the poster) was during the process. If he was
> friendly and told Petey up front the whole situation, then he
> shouldn't have received the treatment he did upon returning.
>
> While Petey may only be concerned about HIS sale, his management might
> feel a little different. Not only has Petey lost a sale, but he has
> lost himself and the dealership future sales from the poster and
> referrels he may have made. The dealership also potentially lost
> service work and even accessory sales. Bottom line, this is not the
> way a professional salesman works.
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

Well, this was in Capetown South Africa, Petys behavior may be the norm over
there, how would we know?

Hey Foxy, the internet wouldn't be quite the same without us whiners, now
would it?
Because I'm feeling so glum about the situation, maybe it should be some
BLUE cheese?

"Fox Chase" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> want some cheese w that WHINE?!
>

The way it works at the dealership in question, is they leave the keys in
the vehicles and allow you to drive the vehicles (once you have gained
pernission) without a salesperson in the vehicle with you. I am serious
about buying a vehicle. I am so serious in fact, I went around the corner
after the incident to a mitsubishi dealership and drove both the 3L petrol
version and the 2800 turbo diesel and now have decided: I am buying the colt
rodeo 2800 turbo diesel Mitsubishi Motors (see link below.... she's a
monsterbaby!)

The dealership (jurie swart www.jurieswart.com) that Pieter works for is one
of the larger second-hand dealerships in Cape Town. I don't think Pieter
has a problem with sales -hence possibly his rudeness: He normally has
people buying a lot faster than I did. But as I said, I'm a first time
buyer -and wanted to make sure what was true and what wasn't (turbo diesel
vs petrol: torque at low rpm, engine reliability, economy etc).

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.za/Images/colt/01.gif

Brent

"Brent Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The way it works at the dealership in question, is they leave the keys in
> the vehicles and allow you to drive the vehicles (once you have gained
> pernission) without a salesperson in the vehicle with you. I am serious
> about buying a vehicle. I am so serious in fact, I went around the corner
> after the incident to a mitsubishi dealership and drove both the 3L petrol
> version and the 2800 turbo diesel and now have decided: I am buying the
colt
> rodeo 2800 turbo diesel Mitsubishi Motors (see link below.... she's a
> monsterbaby!)
>
> The dealership (jurie swart www.jurieswart.com) that Pieter works for is
one
> of the larger second-hand dealerships in Cape Town. I don't think Pieter
> has a problem with sales -hence possibly his rudeness: He normally has
> people buying a lot faster than I did. But as I said, I'm a first time
> buyer -and wanted to make sure what was true and what wasn't (turbo diesel
> vs petrol: torque at low rpm, engine reliability, economy etc).
>
> http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.za/Images/colt/01.gif
>
> Brent
>

You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and economy on
a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car Salesmen are
the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs of
shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you need
to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson thru the
process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..

Mike

As a new buyer to the 4x4 market, it's essential to feel the difference
between a diesel and petrol. It also makes a big difference the size of the
engine, as well as the make - Mitsubishi is much more stable on the road at
higher speed compared to a Nissan for example. Another example is I am
familiar with cars, where 2.4l engine will probably send me to 230km/h. A
turbo-diesel 4x4 of the same capacity engine will get me to 145 km/h max.
This sort of thing you find out by test driving. With regards to the
reliability of the engine, sure I don't get that from the test drive, but
these are questions that I was asking of the salesman- which was probably
also ****ing him off.

You cant compare buying a 4x4 to buying shoes! If you apply your logic, you
should buy the very first house an estate agent shows you. Don't be silly.
The value of the investment and the various options available dictate the
amount of time you take to make a wise choice. Notwithstanding - I don't
think that upon the second time EVER to a car dealership I should be told I
must buy or they wont allow me to test drive. Come on!

Brent

"Mike Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brent Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The way it works at the dealership in question, is they leave the keys
in
> > the vehicles and allow you to drive the vehicles (once you have gained
> > pernission) without a salesperson in the vehicle with you. I am serious
> > about buying a vehicle. I am so serious in fact, I went around the
corner
> > after the incident to a mitsubishi dealership and drove both the 3L
petrol
> > version and the 2800 turbo diesel and now have decided: I am buying the
> colt
> > rodeo 2800 turbo diesel Mitsubishi Motors (see link below.... she's a
> > monsterbaby!)
> >
> > The dealership (jurie swart www.jurieswart.com) that Pieter works for is
> one
> > of the larger second-hand dealerships in Cape Town. I don't think
Pieter
> > has a problem with sales -hence possibly his rudeness: He normally has
> > people buying a lot faster than I did. But as I said, I'm a first time
> > buyer -and wanted to make sure what was true and what wasn't (turbo
diesel
> > vs petrol: torque at low rpm, engine reliability, economy etc).
> >
> > http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.za/Images/colt/01.gif
> >
> > Brent
> >
>
> You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and economy
on
> a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car Salesmen
are
> the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs of
> shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you need
> to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson thru
the
> process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..
>
>

MY god ppl give the guy a break, who cares if the other dealership place was
crap the main thing was that he got a mitsubishi

"Brent Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike
>
> As a new buyer to the 4x4 market, it's essential to feel the difference
> between a diesel and petrol. It also makes a big difference the size of
the
> engine, as well as the make - Mitsubishi is much more stable on the road
at
> higher speed compared to a Nissan for example. Another example is I am
> familiar with cars, where 2.4l engine will probably send me to 230km/h. A
> turbo-diesel 4x4 of the same capacity engine will get me to 145 km/h max.
> This sort of thing you find out by test driving. With regards to the
> reliability of the engine, sure I don't get that from the test drive, but
> these are questions that I was asking of the salesman- which was probably
> also ****ing him off.
>
> You cant compare buying a 4x4 to buying shoes! If you apply your logic,
you
> should buy the very first house an estate agent shows you. Don't be
silly.
> The value of the investment and the various options available dictate the
> amount of time you take to make a wise choice. Notwithstanding - I don't
> think that upon the second time EVER to a car dealership I should be told
I
> must buy or they wont allow me to test drive. Come on!
>
> Brent
>
> "Mike Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Brent Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > The way it works at the dealership in question, is they leave the keys
> in
> > > the vehicles and allow you to drive the vehicles (once you have gained
> > > pernission) without a salesperson in the vehicle with you. I am
serious
> > > about buying a vehicle. I am so serious in fact, I went around the
> corner
> > > after the incident to a mitsubishi dealership and drove both the 3L
> petrol
> > > version and the 2800 turbo diesel and now have decided: I am buying
the
> > colt
> > > rodeo 2800 turbo diesel Mitsubishi Motors (see link below.... she's a
> > > monsterbaby!)
> > >
> > > The dealership (jurie swart www.jurieswart.com) that Pieter works for
is
> > one
> > > of the larger second-hand dealerships in Cape Town. I don't think
> Pieter
> > > has a problem with sales -hence possibly his rudeness: He normally
has
> > > people buying a lot faster than I did. But as I said, I'm a first
time
> > > buyer -and wanted to make sure what was true and what wasn't (turbo
> diesel
> > > vs petrol: torque at low rpm, engine reliability, economy etc).
> > >
> > > http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.za/Images/colt/01.gif
> > >
> > > Brent
> > >
> >
> > You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and
economy
> on
> > a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car Salesmen
> are
> > the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs
of
> > shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you
need
> > to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson thru
> the
> > process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..
> >
> >
>
>

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:54:55 -0500, "Mike Hall"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and economy on
>a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car Salesmen are
>the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs of
>shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you need
>to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson thru the
>process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..


Not a real good comparison. First, shoes don't usually set you back
several thousand dollars. Nothing wrong with taking time to compare
models and making the informed decision that is right for you.
Second, If both are working on commission, the car salesman's payday
for the sale should be much greater, hence he/she should have a little
patience and will likely work harder for the sale.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

hope it don;t get to windy over there it might blow away.

"James BIGFOOT Holloway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> MY god ppl give the guy a break, who cares if the other dealership place
was
> crap the main thing was that he got a mitsubishi
>

... and that is a good thing?.. he should have bought a Jeep..

"Matt Mead" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:54:55 -0500, "Mike Hall"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and economy
on
> >a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car Salesmen
are
> >the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs of
> >shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you
need
> >to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson thru
the
> >process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..
>
>
> Not a real good comparison. First, shoes don't usually set you back
> several thousand dollars. Nothing wrong with taking time to compare
> models and making the informed decision that is right for you.
> Second, If both are working on commission, the car salesman's payday
> for the sale should be much greater, hence he/she should have a little
> patience and will likely work harder for the sale.
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

Matt

Sales people want signatures on the bill of sale, and they have little time
for what they consider to be Sunday afternoon time wasters..ok, so the guy
lost a sale that time, but no doubt a sucker would come along within minutes
and do a deal with him.. remember that it is said that a sucker is born
every second..

Yeah, just a pity a vehicle in South Africa costs the same as a house. Do
you buy the 1st house you look at...?
"Mike Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Matt Mead" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:54:55 -0500, "Mike Hall"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >You must be special to be able to evaluate engine reliability and
economy
> on
> > >a short test drive.. just so that you don't think that Used Car
Salesmen
> are
> > >the only rude people, go to a shoe store and try on 10 different pairs
of
> > >shoes.. don't buy a pair just yet tho.. tell the salesperson that you
> need
> > >to think on it.. go back the next day and take the same salesperson
thru
> the
> > >process again.. watch the face closely to gauge impatience..
> >
> >
> > Not a real good comparison. First, shoes don't usually set you back
> > several thousand dollars. Nothing wrong with taking time to compare
> > models and making the informed decision that is right for you.
> > Second, If both are working on commission, the car salesman's payday
> > for the sale should be much greater, hence he/she should have a little
> > patience and will likely work harder for the sale.
> >
> > Matt
> > 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4
>
> Matt
>
> Sales people want signatures on the bill of sale, and they have little
time
> for what they consider to be Sunday afternoon time wasters..ok, so the guy
> lost a sale that time, but no doubt a sucker would come along within
minutes
> and do a deal with him.. remember that it is said that a sucker is born
> every second..
>
>

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:20:26 -0500, "Mike Hall"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"James BIGFOOT Holloway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> MY god ppl give the guy a break, who cares if the other dealership place
>was
>> crap the main thing was that he got a mitsubishi
>>
>
>.. and that is a good thing?.. he should have bought a Jeep..
>
Isuzu Trooper

Yes, 'aint that the truth. The mitsu I'm buying is R300 000.00 (about US$46
000.00), about the same price as a house in many areas. And the second hand
market is overpriced too.

"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah, just a pity a vehicle in South Africa costs the same as a house. Do
you buy the 1st house you look at...?

what is the income diff for a pharmacist between south africa and the
u.s.a. and is it worth staying there?

I think standard salaries for pharmacists are better in the USA than in
South Africa. In SA, a pharmacist earns between US$20 000.00 - US$40 000 per
year. A new 4x4 costs US$45 000, and most 2 bedroomed houses cost from US$45
000 - US$100 000 on average.

And yes, Cape Town is the most beautiful place on the planet!

http://www1.capetourism.org/capetown.asp

Brent

"jim donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> what is the income diff for a pharmacist between south africa and the
> u.s.a. and is it worth staying there?
>

Also visit here..... http://www.gocapetown.co.za/

Oh yes, Cape Town and SA is also GREAT for 4x4'ing...... so come visit us!