4 wheel drive - is it?

ianh1 said:

if you mean the post two or three earlier mentioning Audis and fuel economy etc then the answer is from my perspective tha that post is irrelevant. -- musings from someone without a Freelander???burn away babies!!!!
Ian Hughes
Tassie

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LOL - yes i did mean that post.

Luckily I have a machine shop available to me - so it might be a worthwhile exercise for my too. I don't think I would be treading on your toes as I dont think we are too close (on a map that is) to worry. Obviously if can pick your brains, it saves invesnting the wheel (so to speak) twice.

I'm with Ian on this the VC seems a bit of a half arsed fix . My theory is .... When LR tried the Freelander drive train in a Maestro van it didn't handle well.
At this point I think,the VC was there to let the drive train windup get out somewhere as the diffs were the same.
LR logic, 'Well the van handled Ok before it was4x4d, lets change the diff ratio front to back so that the road drives the rear and the Vc lets the difference equalise'. pause...banging noises....'It works!!!!'....' Right lets sell it and save the company.'
You get the same problems with defenders drive trains ie. trashed transmission parts if you lock the centre diff and drive on good surfaces.

The Mad Hat Man said:

LOL - yes i did mean that post.

Luckily I have a machine shop available to me - so it might be a worthwhile exercise for my too. I don't think I would be treading on your toes as I dont think we are too close (on a map that is) to worry. Obviously if can pick your brains, it saves invesnting the wheel (so to speak) twice.

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No probs. When I get the thing in and actually working will be only to happy to share some more details. In the meantime I'll see if I can get some meaningful pics.
If it all works out and you feel in any way beholden to me, you can buy me a beer next time I'm in UK !! (or you're in Tassie!!)
Cheers
Ian Hughes

crikey mate! its a long swim - get me in a tinnie or two.

or maybe I shud be gettin' them in

The Mad Hat Man said:

crikey mate! its a long swim - get me in a tinnie or two.

or maybe I shud be gettin' them in

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How far are you from Derby(silly question really -- nowhere in UK is really THAT far from Derby!! ).
Son works with RR aerospace there and we get over every couple of years.
Due again 07/08 sometime

Cheers
Ian Hughes
PS Real beer -- not that flat warm sweet stuff
Also we call em cans. --- a "tinnie" is a small aluminium row boat!!

about 150 miles - but i bet there's lots of guys who live closer

Real beer has gotta be warm and sorta flat - its the "Dogs Bollocks" (name of a real ale)

see also http://www.wychwood.co.uk/wychwood_seasonal.htm

ianh1 said:

No probs. When I get the thing in and actually working will be only to happy to share some more details. In the meantime I'll see if I can get some meaningful pics.
If it all works out and you feel in any way beholden to me, you can buy me a beer next time I'm in UK !! (or you're in Tassie!!)
Cheers
Ian Hughes

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fancy a yumcha?! i am just $123 away north of tassie

looks like ya got a volunteer Ian

dearot said:

fancy a yumcha?! i am just $123 away north of tassie

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Is that Jetstar or Virgin Blue
Cheers
Ian Hughes

ianh1 said:

Is that Jetstar or Virgin Blue
Cheers
Ian Hughes

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spirit of tassie

Piccies of the bits for the VCU replacement attached (hopefully) Cheers
Ian Hughes
tassie

it looks good - yu gotta box to put it in?
I assume that aint all the bits?

Looks simple but at the end of the day it is only going to give you AWD in sticky situations and is not automatic. would you use it on the motorway in bad weather I don't think so! And if you drive engaged on good roads it will probably wreck the tranie.
Has anyone looked at a locking centre diff? Does anyone know why Landrover didn't do that in the first place, the defender works and with traction control the difflock is pretty redundant except for the most extreme conditions.

the idea is just to switch between 2 and 4wd. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hi All,
Just a comment, ---the aim of the VCU replacement with a selectable 4WD system is simply to eliminate the early Freelander problem of drive train failure caused by a siezed VCU, and still give a modicum of off road performance.
The facility of fancy torque proportioning under a variety road conditions is simply a nonsense if as a result of failing VCU, the drive train spends its on road time f****ing itself.(and in fact could be downright dangerous - catastrophic vcu induced crown wheel/pinion failure at highway speeds for instance!!!)
The VCU replacement is cheap and simple to manufacture and install, allows the car to be an unconstrained 2WD most of the time (99.9% of Freelanders?)
gives simple 4WD when the driver wants it, may give improved mpg etcetc...
Lets face it, none of this would have been necessary if Land Rover had done a proper job on the VCU design and implementation in the first place.

Mad Hat Man's most recent posting pretty well sums it up!!

Having got that off my chest
Pleased (but not surprised). at the response so far to the VCU replacement concept.

The plan is to fit the two splines and sleeve into a cylindrical housing with the yoke and diaphragm actuator mounted externally, -- the yoke accessing the sleeve through a flanged opening on the side of the housing. The half shafts carrying each spline will be supportd by two bearings, in addition there will be spigot bearing or bush between these shafts for spline/sleeve alignment purposes.

Actuating vacuum will come from the manifold (on my petrol 1.8).

The original Ford Raider setup uses two separate solenoid valves to direct and control vacuum to, and venting of the diaphragm. My concern initially was that if both solenoids are deactivated (electrical fault? always a possibility on a Freebie) the system could vent the manifold vacuum to atmosphere with some problems for servo assist on the brakes! A bench test seems to show that Ford worked it out correctly!!

All I need to do now is to get my mech eng mate off his bum and do the bit of machining/assembly work.

Cheers

Ian Hughes

Tassie

Yu doin a good job there Ian. Please keep us all informed.

Looks good Ian,

what about ground clearence with the vacuum/diaphram attached. Not a lot of room as the freelander doesnt have a deep transmission tunnel, combined with close proximity of exhaust.

Was looking at CAR magazine for the new Freelander2, very deep transmission tunnel and looks like it with be jam packed with technology for handling and 4wd control. Not what we want, the new F2 is aimed as those who are not used to 4wd, a bit more girlie than the first LOL

I use Ford Rangers in work, diff lock is achieved by lever although you have to dis-engage the diff lock by pressing a button.

is an electric solenoid a viable alternative?

Thanks for the interest.

Regarding clearance/space to fit in transmission tunnel, the unit itself is only about 4inches diam and by definition the same length spline tip to spline tip as the VCU/harmonic balancer -- no probs there!!
The interesting bit is attachment and alignment of the diaphragm and yoke wrt the sleeve unit. Our intention is to fit the diaphragm/yoke to the side, with the diaphragm nestled in to the rear of the unit. The diaphragm itself is also only about 4inches diameter and tucks partially behind the sleeve housing-- making the overall plan width about 6inches from the shaft centre line to the extreme periphery of the diaphragm to one side only.
First pass looks tight but there should be room, -- if not I believe we could overcome any squeeze by mounting the diaphragm a bit more remotely. A direct acting solenoid may be more compact as would a small electric worm/auger drive.
I have also seen a difflock system using positive air pressure and a 12 volt compressor. Higher operating pressure would allow a smaller diameter diaphragm or piston as a more compact installation. Simpler still would be a slide lever on the side of the unit!!
I would like to think we can get the solenoid switched vacuum driven system to fit and work before we need to look at alternatives.

Ground clearance will be slightly better than with the VCU/harmonic balancer, even if we need to fit a stone-guard plate if the workings look a bit vulnerable.

All in all I think people will be surprised at the compactness of the unit especially when compared with the size and weight of the VCU/balancer assembly.

Cheers
Ian Hughes
Tassie

Ian while i think this would be a great mod . i have a concern that you are still not going to solve the original LR fudge. Namely the front and rear 'axles' will still drive at different speeds , I think this will mean, and I'm only guessing here, with the locker engaged every 100 meters travelled will mean that the rear will be , effectively 5 meters behind the front. I don't know but that seems like a lot of transmission windup to me. The ford that the bits came off would not have had to cope with this as it drives both axles at the same speed.