300tdi fuel pump leaking (not front seal, i think)

julianf · May 18, 2017

I dont understand what's going on currently -

The disco appears to have a fuel leak from the IP. As in, there's a pool of clear fluid under the car, drips off things, and it stops at IP level.

Banjos are all ok. I took the dust cover off the timing belt housing, expecting it to all be wet, but it was dry.

...so im not sure where its comming from. Appears to be dry above the pump (ie it does not seem to be the leak offs)

Is there anywhere on the IP that fuel commonly leaks from apart from the front seal?

Saint.V8 · May 18, 2017

Wow....I have just found my pump leaking like a sieve this morning too.....

I think mine is from the rear banjo joint (I hope) but it is dribbling in 3 or 4 places - I am hoping it is just running down from the banjo and dripping off everything!

I am hoping the pump casing isn't cracked, investigation time I think!

Saint.V8 · May 18, 2017

Looks like mine is from the rear banjo and then running over the pump body causing drips from all sorts of places!

Off to get some new copper washers for the banjo and see if that cures it!

reiny · May 18, 2017

Mine did that some 4 years ago. It was time for pump-off-and-send-to-specialist.

Saint.V8 · May 18, 2017

Well I found my problem....

Spill return banjo union to the rear of the FIP, line to tank pipe has snapped off.

As I was putting the socket on to undo the banjo, the pipe just fell off...was only holding on by the tiniest bit of metal!!!!

Trouble is, the union isn't available separately as it is only supplied as part of the spill return pipe kit, OEM cost is £77+.....mail order is considerably less but will be a few days for delivery......bum and poo.

Hope your fault finding proves as successful....

jamesmartin · May 18, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
Well I found my problem....

Spill return banjo union to the rear of the FIP, line to tank pipe has snapped off.

View attachment 123898

As I was putting the socket on to undo the banjo, the pipe just fell off...was only holding on by the tiniest bit of metal!!!!

Trouble is, the union isn't available separately as it is only supplied as part of the spill return pipe kit, OEM cost is £77+.....mail order is considerably less but will be a few days for delivery......bum and poo.

Hope your fault finding proves as successful....

20 quid from the likes of paddocks, its not the kind of thing genuine is important

Saint.V8 · May 18, 2017

jamesmartin said:
20 quid from the likes of paddocks, its not the kind of thing genuine is important

Just got one on order, as you say OEM/Genuine is not critical on this part....

What I want to know is why is it only available as part of the full spill pipe kit...and if you go OEM £77 odd is fecking ridiculous if you ask me!!

jamesmartin · May 18, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
Just got one on order, as you say OEM/Genuine is not critical on this part....

What I want to know is why is it only available as part of the full spill pipe kit...and if you go OEM £77 odd is fecking ridiculous if you ask me!!

because the plastic pipe is shrunk on id think

julianf · May 18, 2017

Got to the bottom of mine - Leak off banjo bolt loose.

But its loose as the thread has given up : (

Noone's touched it in a long time, so why its broken now, who knows.

Looks like its time to swap the IP. The casting that the thread is into is quite a bit of the top of the pump. I dont know much about IPs - is this going to be somthing that someone like Diesel Bob would be able to sort with a part from another breaker pump? I know the casting new would cost more than a used pump, by a long way!

Saint.V8 · May 18, 2017

julianf said:
Got to the bottom of mine - Leak off banjo bolt loose.

But its loose as the thread has given up : (

Noone's touched it in a long time, so why its broken now, who knows.

Looks like its time to swap the IP. The casting that the thread is into is quite a bit of the top of the pump. I dont know much about IPs - is this going to be somthing that someone like Diesel Bob would be able to sort with a part from another breaker pump? I know the casting new would cost more than a used pump, by a long way!

If it was overtightened, over time with vibration, heat cycles etc, slowly the thread forma and begin to deform under the pressure of being overstretched.

Is it not possible to helicoil or even cut an over sized thread and fit a large banjo bolt and union?

julianf · May 18, 2017

Its that special banjo bolt - the one with the small hole in it.

I had a look at my 'spare' ip (the one that i got re-sealed to fit to my defender) and the thread on that one looks like its brass, set into alluminium. I assume that is standard.

There's not much meat around the thread - the thread isnt really into a block, but more cut into a protrusion on the casting, so, chop much away, and there will be nothing left.

The defender pump has to go on tomorrow, so ill see what's what when i have the faulty one off.

julianf · May 19, 2017

Right, so this is the pump that i took out -

And this is my known working spare -

The electric "thing" has never been connected on the disco. I dont know what it is, nor do i know what the extra mechanism on the side is.

My spare pump is off a defender 300tdi, but i dont know if it is the engine's original pump.

So, what's all the stuff on the side, and can i do without it?

Ive not got the engine running yet - i found that the lift pump was dead (so couldnt prime to the IP) but i changed that, turned it over, and spurts from the back of the IP - then added the injector pipes, and bled them through - but by that point the battery was pretty much dead.

I hope that, when its charge, ill have some life, but i would like to know what all that "stuff" is on the side of the IP that im now missing?

(i also checked the timing after - spot on checking IP against flywheel, so i assume the cam is still in too)

Saint.V8 · May 19, 2017

On the pump in the top picture, the accelerator return spring and movement stop is on the side, with the spring mounted atop the pump body.

On the pump in the bottom picture, the accelerator return spring and stop is a coil type spring under the accelerator lever, with the stop screwed horizontal into the two webs from the pump body.

julianf · May 19, 2017

Im having no luck with this at all.

If i put the timing pin in the IP, i can see the flywheel groove underneath. I used the locking kit to swap the pumps anyhow.

If i crack off the injector pipes from the injectors, i get spurts of fuel there.

If i do them up, i get no life at all. Not even smoke coming from the exhaust.

At a bit of a loss to be honest.

The pump that ive fitted -

I had two pumps, one from my defender, and one from the 101 (slightly different bosch pump). I got them both re-sealed, by the same company, at the same time (ie as a pair) - the 101 one was re-fitted, and fine. The defender one i had on a shelf, meaning to refit it, but i had not done so. I only got it resealed as a precaution - it was running fine before, but the company did me a deal on getting 2 done at the same time.

So, im fairly sure the pump is good.

Ive had to replace the lift pump today too. My only (grasping at straws) thing is that ive got an air ingress there, from the unions. Theyre a pain at the best of times.

Other than that, im pretty much out of ideas.

I dont think the pump can get a revolution out against the crank and the markers still line up, can it? I mean ive not had the belt off or anything, but, like i say, im clutching at straw now.

julianf · May 19, 2017

Looking at about 4mins 37 secs of this video -

There's a plate that he removes. He says its 200tdi specific. I think this pump has that plate... (my defender is a 300tdi, but i dont know if its the original pump)

Ive not touched the plate, so ive not locked the pump. But does this mean anything if ive used the pin?

Kwakerman · May 19, 2017

1. May be worth taking the front case off just to make sure the cam timing hasn't slipped.
2. have you tried starting with the throttle slightly pressed, could be the idle stop is set too low for it to start (I think you have to remove the stop screw to get the top off the pump off to reseal it, may have been replaced in the wrong place)

julianf · May 19, 2017

2) Yep. I know your not supposed to for some reason, but my general starting procedure is to apply some throttle. Normally starts on first revolution though - never been a bad starter.

1) Ughh...

If it wasnt for the crank dampener, that job would be so much easier.

300tdi fuel pump leaking (not front seal, i think)

julianf

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