300tdi damper pulley alignment ( not penny trick )

Hi guys

Some of you will have seen the other threads on this problem.

I'm back on it this weekend to try and sort it.

I'd repaired this but it failed within a few miles. The problem is that the damper pulley goes past the end of the crankshaft. It's only by 1mm but it means the front bolt/spacer tighten against the crankshaft and not the pulley. So the keyway took ALL of the pressure.

So after the repair the keyway failed as the pulley started to vibrate.

Anyway. A friend has offered to make me a spacer to fit between the damper pulley and the rear toothed belt pulley. It looks like that rear pulley has been worn a few mm but it just won't budge so I'm leaving it on ( I'll give it one last try in the morning ).

Dave off this forum offered to do the same but if I can get it done locally where we can measure against the pulley it may be better. Dave ... would your spacer be made of steel as the local guy says his will be made of alloy and he sees no problem with that as he says it needs little strength as it will only be a pressure fit.

So I need to know how thick we make this spacer. It needs to be thick enough to have strength but I need the pulleys on the serp belt to line up.

Looking at the other pulleys the fronts of the idler pulley ( fixed to front timing case cover ) and servo pulley look a few mm forward of the alternator and my damper pulley as it is.

So do I line the c/s damper pulley up with the alternator or the other pulleys? It's no wonder these belts sing.

How many mm proud of the end of the c/s does the damper pulley sit? If someone knows this then can you please post.

Otherwise then can some Disco 300tdi owners have a quick look in the morning and let me know what pulleys the damper pulley lines up with please? I want to get it right this time.

Many thanks

Col

Hi again,

It will line up with all the pulleys of course, but I doubt it's that precise, a mm here or there should be ok.

If your pulley is sitting 1mm back I would make a 2mm spacer to start with, no point in overdoing it.

If you can get in there with a straight edge, you may be able to work out the difference from the other pulleys by placing the straight edge on the sides of the pulleys and measuring the offsets.

I would use mild steel not alloy as you don't want anything soft in there, plus it's under a lot of pressure and if it 'relaxes' then the bolt will come undone again.

Dave

Hi again Dave

The front of the servo pulley sits about 4mm forward of mine as it sits now ( 1mm back of end of c/s ). So that would take 4mm spacer to line up with that ... but the alt pulley is about 4mm rearward of the servo ... so that virtually lines up now with the damper.

It appears that the pulleys are not all lined up perfect. So I agree with you that if I use a 2mm spacer that will put it somewhere in the middle and leave it 1mm proud of the c/s end.

I also feel a little uncomfortable using a soft alloy spacer as I want this to last this time and I will be using loctite 660 cream between the shaft and the pulley to take up any play. That will take some heat to get the pulley off in the future so I don't want to have take this off again in a hurry.

Col

Sounds good, go with the steel.

skires said:

Hi again Dave

The front of the servo pulley sits about 4mm forward of mine as it sits now ( 1mm back of end of c/s ). So that would take 4mm spacer to line up with that ... but the alt pulley is about 4mm rearward of the servo ... so that virtually lines up now with the damper.

It appears that the pulleys are not all lined up perfect. So I agree with you that if I use a 2mm spacer that will put it somewhere in the middle and leave it 1mm proud of the c/s end.

I also feel a little uncomfortable using a soft alloy spacer as I want this to last this time and I will be using loctite 660 cream between the shaft and the pulley to take up any play. That will take some heat to get the pulley off in the future so I don't want to have take this off again in a hurry.

Col

Click to expand...

What do you mean by "servo pulley" Col? I understand alternator pulley, water pump pulley, power steering pump pulley, tensioner pulley, idler pulley, and crank shaft damper pulley, but can't think what you mean.

think he means belt tensior pulley!!!!!!!!!!!!

or possibly the PAS pump, but I've never heard either referred to as a servo

Sorry Richard

Power assisted steering pulley.

Colin

Here's this morning's dilemma ...

Ideally this rear pulley will come off and I can replace it with a modded one ... but we've covered that before ... it won't come off even with a puller kit.

So all I can think of is heat to try and get it off.

... but if I use heat that may damage that oil seal at the back of this pulley ( and what about oil pump etc? ). If I heat it and it causes oil seal to leak but I still can't get the pulley off then I'm really knackered as I can't change oil seal.

So do I even try heat or do I just accept that it isn't coming off and get the spacer made up?

What do you think?

Col

Col-I would not use heat from a flame-as you say if it gets the oil seal you are stuffed-I would try the puller again get it on tight as you can and then try pouring boiling water over the pulley,whilst the puller is in place under tension-you might be lucky-boiling water is only 100c,and the oil seal even if it sees this should stand that alright-good luck

Yes or a hot air gun, but as said don't go hotter than the part would see in normal use I.e. About 100c.

Get some wd40 in there first then warm up and keep applying the wd, if it starts moving then push it back on, apply more wd and try again, little by little. Make sure the crank is perfectly smooth in front or it'll bind up in no time.

Try the above plus, put some tension on the puller, then gently tap the pulley with something that won't damage it or on a part of it that does not matter too much, then apply some more tension etc.

If none of the above works then you have a choice of leave it alone or crank out I think.

From prior experience crankshaft key way repair is rarely successful-seen 200 tdi people have brazed in and failed soon after, chemical metal etc result the same.

Bio/Dave

It just aint shifting at all. I've just trashed my 2nd pulley kit. So it looks like the spacer option.

Fanatic

I hear what you are saying buddy. The proper job is to replace crankshaft or put a s/h engine in but it aint happening at the moment due to cost. So it's this or I break the car and get something else.

I've read several stories on the net where this has worked and the owners have had the cars running for up to 6 years on and it still works. So I have to give it a go.

Col

Col-what bit of the puller is giving up?If it is just the bolts,they may be soft steel-High tensiles would be stronger(proper black cap screws)

As with most of us, cash is tight, don't risk it any more in my opinion, just get a spacer made up from steel, bung it in and see how it goes.

Get as good a job on the keyway repair as possible and most importantly, when you are satisfied that the pulley is proud of the crank, get the full torque on that bolt, it's not easy without a crank locking tool as it's really tight.

biolandy said:

Col-what bit of the puller is giving up?If it is just the bolts,they may be soft steel-High tensiles would be stronger(proper black cap screws)

Click to expand...

I'm using black high tensile ones from a local fixings place.

It's not the bolts that fail although on this last attempt one of the three bent a little.

It's the centre bolt that goes through the middle of the 'yolk' and goes in the centre of the crankshaft. I tighten up until it's really tight then try tapping the pulley to see if it will 'break' whilst under pressure. Nothing.

Then tighten a bit more. We are talking silly tight by this time. The centre bolt is a large square threaded black one. At the fore end there is a small centralising cone fitted. The first kit that I used the whole of the large central bolt just started twisting. It was 'S' shaped when I finished. I took it back to Machine Mart and they said they had never seen one do that and gave me a new one.

On this one I've had it that tight that the cone at the front has disintegrated and the front of the bolt is now just compressing.

Maybe they are ****e puller kits but I don't want to just keep spending on new tools if this is a dead horse.

I've spoken to a local Land Rover place about this and the mechanic there said that he's taken hundreds of these off and most of the time they just come off dead easy ... but he has seen them where he has had to cut them off.

Col

Just to add ...

It's catch 22 time.

I would like to use some serious strong loctite between the c/s and the damper pulley. I was going to use 660. That is however listed as 'strong' and not removable. Apparently all loctite will undo at 200 C but I don't want my c/s at that temp.

If I knew that the timing was all perfect I'd still be tempted to use the 660 and bang that bolt up to 80Nm plus 90 degrees. Knowing that the timing was all fine and the car started and ran well I would live with the fact that it has a new belt on and it will just run like this until that belt goes and then I'll accept that it needs a s/h engine throwing in ( hopefully that will be a while ).

However if I use the 660 and then the car doesn't run right and the timing needs tweaking then I'm stuffed.

If I use a weaker bond and the timing is fine and I don't need to get that pulley back off in a hurry then I've compromised the repair.

Hence ... catch 22

Col