Disco 1 300tdi Burning oil on startup

EdoubleD · Feb 11, 2018

So I have a D1 R Reg 300tdi which overheated due to the expansion resivoir cap being left on (don't say anything!!!!

). This resulted in a cracked head.

It was sat in my yard for 6 months and I've finally got round to sorting it out. I've put a breaker head on and new gaskets (head, manifold, thermostat etc).

It starts up and runs OK but has the following problems which may be related or isolated in terms of the problem I'm trying to diagnose:

The injector overflow's leak diesel and will need new copper sealing washers
The glow plug light doesn't come on although it does start on the button (i have a 1000cca 120 amp speed boat battery though). I have tried to test the plugs while running and show no voltage (although would I show voltage during running??) I have been unable to test these on start up as I've been on my own.
There is a whistle on the turbo while under acceleration load - obviously this needs attention but what could be the issue? Pipes not connected properly?
On start up when the throttle is depressed the car puts out a fair bit of blue smoke. See video. This doesn't happen at idle. The car did it first time it was started with the new head. Then turned off for maybe 30mins and again when started with throttle down, it was then left for 24 hrs and the same symptom on throttle. I have not been able to test since driving it as it's now dark.
There is a slight chinking noise from the rocker, this could just be to my poor attempt at the valve clearances (first time I've done these)

Edit: the EGR has been blanked!
I'm pretty novice and trying to see if all these are related or if I should pay specific attention to each part past the replacement of the washers etc. I also need to find out exactly what I need to do to each part to get it in working condition.

The car is currently SORN so I've only been able to drive it up and down the quiet country lane outside once, for maybe 1km in total. I didn't want to drive it any further for obvious reasons. From what I could tell there was no oil being burnt that was visible in the mirrors but it was at this point I could hear the turbo whine/whistle.

If any one can help it would be much appreciated!

See vid of smoke:

dieseldog69 · Feb 11, 2018

The turbo whistle and the blue smoke could be related but you would need to run it up to operating temp to be sure about the oil burning.

Valve clearances should be redone, rule of 9 for an 8 valve head (173) Land Rover Discovery 300tdi: Valve Adjustments - YouTube

You can check the glow plug heater relay is working by listening while the ignition is switched on, you may have to wait up to 45 seconds as the light goes out first and the plugs continue to heat for a further 12 to 15 seconds, if the relay is working you can also test the circuit by clipping your test lamp on to the positive wires and an earth while you turn the ignition on to see if there is a wiring problem, glow plugs don't last forever, they are cheap enough to replace too Land Rover Discovery 300 Tdi Heater Glow Plugs x4 - ETC8847 (Fits: Land Rover)

You could try annealing the leak off banjo washers with a blow torch How to Anneal a Copper Washer

EdoubleD · Feb 11, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
The turbo whistle and the blue smoke could be related but you would need to run it up to operating temp to be sure about the oil burning.

Thanks for the response. What am I looking for when it's up to temp? Just the appearance of oil burn smoke? If I do get this what does it suggest? If I don't get any smoke do you think it could be oil leaking into the turbo while it's sat still? Although I did get oil with only a 30mins gap between starts. I guess taking off the pipes etc and checking them for oil is the first thing to do? Which might also solve the whirring if that's just a dodgy pipe.

The other thing I'm thinking is valve stem seals. I didn't do these when the head was off so don't know how worn they are. Would this be linked to operating temp as above?

dieseldog69 · Feb 11, 2018

Could be valve stem seals as the oil can leak past them into the cylinders when the engine stops. Ideally getting the engine up to temp by running it mixed load driving for 15 to 20 mins you would be able to see if it was still burning oil once warm which could point to valve stem seals, if you pull the intercooler hoses and check them for oil it will give you an idea of how much oil is either getting past the turbo oil seals or getting past the oil separator on the side of the head, you could clean everything through including the intercooler with petrol (but be sure to make sure that you fully vent it before restarting or it will get exciting and not in a good way) and leave the crank breather off the intake to rule that out and check again after running it.

Turbo whirring can be the bearings being shot, you can find turbo cartridges easy enough to replace the wore out item CHRA Land-Rover Range Rover Defender Discovery 300 2.5 TDI 443854-0110 Cartridge Not a hard job to do, plenty of video's on it on youtube.

If it is still burning oil after stem seals and turbo cartridge then it probably needs honed out and new oil control rings on the pistons. Not a terribly difficult job if you know your way around an engine but daunting if you don't.

Goc3k · Feb 11, 2018

Well I was mid reply, but dieseldog has already dealt some quality info out! I'd echo re-doing the valve clearances if they're chiming - and that the stem seals would be a prime suspect in anyones book. That breaker head might've been sitting bone dry for ages before you put it on your block after-all.

Just as an extra re the turbo - if it was good and not passing excessive oil or producing that flat whistle often associated to worn bearings before you changed the head, I'd check the waste-gate has not seized while it was laid up for 6 months, as that can cause a change of tone at part throttle, rig up a syringe or use a compressor with only about 1bar of pressure in the tank to check it.

How many miles are on the lump out of curiosity?

EdoubleD · Feb 12, 2018

will go through the replies in detail but to answer the easiest question it's only got 138,000 on it so not that much.

Chances are the head has been sat for a while before going on mine. I know the guy I bought it off well enough as I've bought various parts off him and he's pretty honest. He said it was off a decent engine but then that could mean anything at the end of the day!

I will pull the hoses and the intercooler then clean them up. I'll also redo the valve clearances. Run it up to temp at idle in the yard as I can't be driving it SORN for 15 - 20 mins.
Once I've done that I'll report back!

The turbo was fine before the new head was fitted so probably isn't the bearings. I presume to get decent look at the waste gate I need to get the whole turbo out?

dieseldog69 · Feb 13, 2018

EdoubleD said:
I presume to get decent look at the waste gate I need to get the whole turbo out?

Nope, pop the waste gate actuator arm off the lever and check that the wastegate is opening freely and not stuck/sticking, may just require rod to be lengthened slightly to take pressure off the spring holding it closed.

Goc3k · Feb 13, 2018

Dieseldog explained the best method there (unhooking the arm from the wastegate), as said though you can check quickly if it actually works by just feeding small amount of pressure from an external sauce into the wastegate actuator, or even giving the rod a good tug with some pliers while it's still attached (toward the front of the engine / the radiator). Just don't force it if it doesn't want to budge, unless you're a fan of the kill or cure methodology

.

138k miles is low so the old lump has plenty of life in her yet by the sounds of it. Let us know how you get on once you've had a chance to get her warmed up good and proper as to whether it keeps on smoking.

neilly · Feb 13, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
may just require rod to be lengthened slightly to take pressure off the spring holding it closed.

And this would stop the blue smoke?

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 13, 2018

neilly said:
And this would stop the blue smoke?

Cheers

The wastegate is held shut by the actuator spring at rest, when the turbo comes on boost it pressurises the actuator and it regulates the boost through the wastegate flap opening and closing over the aperture, in order to increase your boost your boost you lengthen the rod to hold the wastegate shut for longer and requiring more boost to open the wastegate, as the flap is held tight it is necessary to slack the rod off in order to remove the pin and test the wastegate lever for movement.

neilly · Feb 13, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
The wastegate is held shut by the actuator spring at rest, when the turbo comes on boost it pressurises the actuator and it regulates the boost through the wastegate flap opening and closing over the aperture, in order to increase your boost your boost you lengthen the rod to hold the wastegate shut for longer and requiring more boost to open the wastegate, as the flap is held tight it is necessary to slack the rod off in order to remove the pin and test the wastegate lever for movement.
View attachment 141951

Thanks, So that is not in the same way as the TD5 then?

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 13, 2018

I think the Td5 runs a VNT turbo which operates a slider ring that alters the angle and pitch of vanes within the turbo housing.

neilly · Feb 14, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
I think the Td5 runs a VNT turbo which operates a slider ring that alters the angle and pitch of vanes within the turbo housing.

View attachment 141953

OK, I thought both the TD5 (I did not think it was a VNT , tbh)and the 300tdi ran the same sort of wastegate, shorten the rod increase pressure, lengthen decrease pressure.

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 14, 2018

Must admit, it's been so long since I did anything to a wastegate that I am doubting myself, I do have it in one of my books for sure but it's safely tucked away in my study (back bedroom with all the other junk I never use).

neilly · Feb 14, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Must admit, it's been so long since I did anything to a wastegate that I am doubting myself, I do have it in one of my books for sure but it's safely tucked away in my study (back bedroom with all the other junk I never use).

Well, All I know is that, I have always understood reducing the length of the rod increases pressure on the TD5 and I do NOT see any major difference between my D2 and the 300tdi( I may be wrong) . Which is why I asked the question I did in response to your answer to someone trying to answer a tech problem as you seemed quite definitive in your answer.

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 14, 2018

neilly said:
Well, All I know is that, I have always understood reducing the length of the rod increases pressure on the TD5 and I do NOT see any major difference between my D2 and the 300tdi( I may be wrong) . Which is why I asked the question I did in response to your answer to someone trying to answer a tech problem as you seemed quite definitive in your answer.

Cheers

Either way you still need to take the pressure of the pin to enable you to remove it and check the operation of the wastegate.

neilly · Feb 14, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Either way you still need to take the pressure of the pin to enable you to remove it and check the operation of the wastegate.

Not quite what you were saying tho'....LOL. basically any spring compressed system would require that.....

. removing the circlip holding the pin in place could be a right PITA.

So how does it make the system smoky?

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 14, 2018

neilly said:
So how does it make the system smoky?

Cheers

You tell me, I was answering his question on whether he needed to remove the alternator to check the operation of the wastegate lever.

Smoking & burning oil is either turbo seals, valve stem seals or oil control rings, take your pick.

You could just start with cheapest/easiest first and go from there.

neilly · Feb 14, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Nope, pop the waste gate actuator arm off the lever and check that the wastegate is opening freely and not stuck/sticking, may just require rod to be lengthened slightly to take pressure off the spring holding it closed.

dieseldog69 said:
You tell me, I was answering his question on whether he needed to remove the alternator to check the operation of the wastegate lever.

Smoking & burning oil is either turbo seals, valve stem seals or oil control rings, take your pick.

You could just start with cheapest/easiest first and go from there.

OK, I assumed as he had a problem with smoke and you answered on what I thought was that point. Re reading the forum that the wastegate was a reason he had smoke.

Cheers

dieseldog69 · Feb 14, 2018

EdoubleD said:
The turbo was fine before the new head was fitted so probably isn't the bearings. I presume to get decent look at the waste gate I need to get the whole turbo out?

neilly said:
OK, I assumed as he had a problem with smoke and you answered on what I thought was that point. Re reading the forum that the wastegate was a reason he had smoke.

Cheers

Blue smoke being burned oil usually.

Disco 1 300tdi Burning oil on startup

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