3.0 tdv6 crankshaft failure

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kikimax

New Member
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Location
london
Hi Guys,
My disco 4 decided to spin a bearing which has resulted in the crankshaft being ruined. has anyone else experienced this before ? any advise on cheapest way to repair would be appreciated.
land rover have told me they only supply short engine's !!? :(
Our mechanic has offered to source and fit a used engine for £4500 but i'm not keep on fitting a second hand engine with unknown mileage ect..
 
My disco 3 did it and it is common on them, google it. Never heard of a disco 4 doing it, but they are the right age and mileage now.

The lr center in liverppol rebuild them, as do a company in london who did my disco 3. Im away so cant get the recipt, but a google searh migt help
 
Well worth a search on the D3/4 forum loads of up to date info.
The tdv6 lumps 2.7 and 3.0 crank bearings dont use locating tabs like engines of old.
Like Gaz says above ive not heard of a 3.0 doing it yet, but I have noticed quite a lot more this has broken etc type posts in the D4 section.

On the 2.7 its only very recently that the crank has been available seperate, main and big end shells were over 500 quid!! for the engine set and again they have only been around for a year or so, so likely to be the same delay with the 3.0 parts.
People have fitted the 3.0 engine in place of a blown 2.7, using all the 2.7 bits and bobs incl turbo etc, so theres obviously some common parts and you never know crank etc may be the same?
 
Cranks are different between the 2.7/3.0, but can be swapped, as far as I believe
However, the bearings were not tabbed on the early 3.0, so can still suffer from spun bearings

They were located by tabs at some point in the engines lifespan, but I don't know when
 
The lack of tabs on bearings is not the issue.
100 of 1000,s of engines are built with tabless bearings now, the TD5 uses them but you dont hear of many of those spinning bearings.
The tabs were used to aid location as part of the assembly procedure, its the "crush" on the shells that stops them from spinning.
Now engine assembly is mostly automated the tabs get in the way so the were deleted.
So IMO its most likely to be oil starvation, even momentarily.
Ref Source: http://www.wilmink.nl/wilmink/KS/KS_lagers_zonder_nok.pdf
Remember that the TDV6 has a max allowable oil consumption of 1 Litre, EVERY 600 miles!!!! so if the level is low anyway it wont take much to drop it to a dangerous level.
As engines get older they use more oil, but maintenance/checking is often not as regular as when they were newer and getting regular checks, so its a double whammy.
Mark
PS Tabbed bearings will also spin nicely if starved of oil!
 
Last edited:
I reckon the 3.0 engine will end up having all the same issues as the 2.7 plus more what with the two turbos and control gear.
Have to say my 2.7 doesnt use a drop of oil between changes.
 
If its not looked after, anythings possible.
Doesnt mean the engine wont have issues, maybe some will have higher than expected oil consumption.
Have to say the OP doesnt smell right, 1st post for a new member, and its about a serious failure of a D4 engine.
No follow up posts, no back ground, what was the resolution?
It sets of a discussion here about how bad the TDV6 is,
It will pop up on a Google search, in the future, casting doubts in the mind of potential D3/4 buyers.
Sounds similar to a thread a while back about D3/4 towbars falling off, started on lots of different forums, probably by the same person.
Turned out to be a false/non-story.
I want to see references/citations where possible or its just net "gossip"!
Mark
 
markomate2 said:
If its not looked after, anythings possible.
Doesnt mean the engine wont have issues, maybe some will have higher than expected oil consumption.
Have to say the OP doesnt smell right, 1st post for a new member, and its about a serious failure of a D4 engine.
No follow up posts, no back ground, what was the resolution?
It sets of a discussion here about how bad the TDV6 is,
It will pop up on a Google search, in the future, casting doubts in the mind of potential D3/4 buyers.
Sounds similar to a thread a while back about D3/4 towbars falling off, started on lots of different forums, probably by the same person.
Turned out to be a false/non-story.
I want to see references/citations where possible or its just net "gossip"!
Mark
Click to expand...
The D3 towbar issue is a current issue, my mate has just had a recall notice from LR to have his checked. There must be some truth behind it as they wouldn't issue a recall if there wasn't a chance of some sort of failure. I'll ask him what is happening today.
 
markomate2 said:
As of Dec 2015 there are no official recalls from LR about tow bars for Discoveries.
Check here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp?whichpage=4&pagesize=10&resultString=(LAND ROVER DISCOVERY) for the date range 01/Jan/1992 to 01/Jan/2016&tx=
See what I mean about citations!
But maybe its covered by some unofficial notice.
Mark
Click to expand...
Spoke to him yesterday and he has had the recall work carried out, basically it is a wear check on the detachable towbar locking system. He was also advised not to leave the towbar attached when not in use. I assume this means that they are concerned with wear because of fretting when there is no load on it. His passed so don't know what the remedial action would have been.

Also mentioned here
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic80952.html
 
Last edited:
markomate2 said:
As of Dec 2015 there are no official recalls from LR about tow bars for Discoveries.
Check here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp?whichpage=4&pagesize=10&resultString=(LAND ROVER DISCOVERY) for the date range 01/Jan/1992 to 01/Jan/2016&tx=
See what I mean about citations!
But maybe its covered by some unofficial notice.
Mark
Click to expand...

Mine was a official recall from landrover. If worn the either put a new rear cross member on or a non removable type. I've had mine inspected.
 
Ok Ive been doing some self education this morning!
Land Rover did the recall as a "Non Code Action" which falls outside the safety recall web notification.
Here is a link for 2014 report: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/403839/non-code-action-bulletin-5.pdf
They have certainly taken their time to get to customers, the tow bar recall was started in 2014!!!
Anyway, always learning, sorry if I gave the impression I didnt believe previous posts!!!
Mark
 
markomate2 said:
The lack of tabs on bearings is not the issue.
100 of 1000,s of engines are built with tabless bearings now, the TD5 uses them but you dont hear of many of those spinning bearings.
The tabs were used to aid location as part of the assembly procedure, its the "crush" on the shells that stops them from spinning.
Now engine assembly is mostly automated the tabs get in the way so the were deleted.
So IMO its most likely to be oil starvation, even momentarily.
Ref Source: http://www.wilmink.nl/wilmink/KS/KS_lagers_zonder_nok.pdf
Remember that the TDV6 has a max allowable oil consumption of 1 Litre, EVERY 600 miles!!!! so if the level is low anyway it wont take much to drop it to a dangerous level.
As engines get older they use more oil, but maintenance/checking is often not as regular as when they were newer and getting regular checks, so its a double whammy.
Mark
PS Tabbed bearings will also spin nicely if starved of oil!
Click to expand...
The TDV6 is known to have a 2 to 5 second delay to oil pressure build up on the first start of the day. If its left unstarted for longer periods, this delay can be lengthened further.
This is what eventually hammers the bearings, loosening the crush which causes the spin.
As said above ^ tabs are there for location when an engine is hand assembled, not to prevent spinning in use.
 
Nodge68 said:
The TDV6 is known to have a 2 to 5 second delay to oil pressure build up on the first start of the day. If its left unstarted for longer periods, this delay can be lengthened further.
This is what eventually hammers the bearings, loosening the crush which causes the spin.
As said above ^ tabs are there for location when an engine is hand assembled, not to prevent spinning in use.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Pre-start oilers are often used for vintage aero engine, ala Merlins etc.
Wonder if anyone has fitted a pre-start oiler to a TDV6 or 8?
Pre start heating is pretty common where I normally live.
If a cars been used for lots of short stop/starts, i.e. the school run then that wouldnt help. Which is why I tend to avoid low mileage older cars!
Mark
 
kikimax said:
Hi Guys,
My disco 4 decided to spin a bearing which has resulted in the crankshaft being ruined. has anyone else experienced this before ? any advise on cheapest way to repair would be appreciated.
land rover have told me they only supply short engine's !!? :(
Our mechanic has offered to source and fit a used engine for £4500 but i'm not keep on fitting a second hand engine with unknown mileage ect..
Click to expand...
Hi - I had the same and I am putting a case for small claims court to get some of my costs back - I'd like to talk and see if we can get strength in numbers! please email me [email protected]
 
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