200TDI Fuel Injector Removal - It's being a pig!

A strong smell of diesel when you're driving is the usual indicator that the injector seals failed on a MB injector as some of the contents of the cylinder get blown out!
Lifting the bonnet can reveal a misty look & liquid running past the injector - it's this solidifying that's the black death.
No issues - other than the mess - caused by running mine for a few days like that.

Ideally fit new seals to the other injectors but you MIGHT get away with annealing the old ones as a temporary fix.

Ratae said:

A strong smell of diesel when you're driving is the usual indicator that the injector seals failed on a MB injector as some of the contents of the cylinder get blown out!
Lifting the bonnet can reveal a misty look & liquid running past the injector - it's this solidifying that's the black death.
No issues - other than the mess - caused by running mine for a few days like that.

Ideally fit new seals to the other injectors but you MIGHT get away with annealing the old ones as a temporary fix.

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Would you recommend new washers before budging the stuck No.4? Or should I try again as planned tomorrow as I have reset the 1st that was leaking?
I might wait until I get some new washers then to help budge the no. 4 injector, don't want to bugger the others too, should have done before hand, but didn't expect one would be such a pain. Always expect the unexpected, Land Rover Owner Lesson 1 I guess!

You've stopped the leak?
If it's not leaking then carry on trying to shift No4 & renew them all once you've got it out.
There is a risk of the blow-by damaging the seat if left long term - but how long is long term is the unknown.

As I said earlier, when mine went it was a couple of hundred miles before I was able to deal with them & there was no damage.
TBH I don't know how long they might have been leaking before it got bad enough to notice.
Minor damage can usually be dealt with with a seat recutting tool - just enough to give the seat a clean uniform appearance.

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated. I've stopped injector No.1 leak, though No.2 started the same! I have removed all three injectors again, carefully plugged the holes and cleaned out all the muck, some black death remains! But I should imagine the reaming/recutting tool would sort that. Here's my plan of action:

I have ordered some copper washers for resetting the current 3 injectors, I will then continue to budge No.4 as it's nicely welded in place! If that doesn't work, I was thinking, would it be easier to just remove the head? Is this what people would normally do? I only ask as I've never used a reaming tool before, but clearly it just cleans the hole by boring it to a degree, I guess it doesn't eat away too much of the head as surely the injectors wouldn't sit/fit correctly? Also, using a re cutting tool when the head is in situ, would this not mean metal particles would drop down into the hole, even if it was blocked up temporarily? I fashioned the straw with the hoover and it did well cleaning out the old muck, though there is quite a bit of solid gunk where the washer sits. So not sure whether this would all be easier long term by removing the head and giving it all a proper clean out. Maybe even skimming the head. Though obviously more work more cost and potential can of worms! I guess it would be easier heating No.4 up hot and banging it out from the inside if I remove the head?

I was also thinking while I'm working on the injectors, is it worth replacing the plugs? Seen a few videos of people removing ones that have sheared or snapped. I have never had issues on start up, maybe a tiny bit of struggling in the colder months, but there is a fair amount of gunk from the injector leak over time, so not sure if it's worth replacing them as well.

Basically, just need advice on whether I should do some more work as I'm sorting it out. It runs and isn't being use at the moment as I don't need to for a few months, hence my thoughts of doing more work. Wondered if anyone had rough pricing from experience if I go for refurbing the head and any other recommended works/maintenance that would be worth doing as well. 265,000 miles on the clock and engine hasn't let me down yet, only started removing the injectors due to slight engine struggling upon revving - never stalling. So thought the spray pattern would be the issue.

Thanks all!

You only need to use the seat cutting tool to clean up the seat by removing as little as possible not take lots of metal out. You will likely not have to remove any at all, just clean the surface.
They have a pilot which fits into the small hole to centre the tool.
Plenty of 'how tos' on youtube.
Straw on a hoover (Henry in my case) worked fine for cleaning up & I've had no issues.

If you have concerns & aren't using the vehicle then you may be happier removing the head & giving it all a thorough going over.

Got a seat cutting set, the one with the best reviews. Was wondering if anyone has used injector grease when installing new injectors and spark plugs for easier removal? This one seems to be for mercedes. Could this be used in small amounts or best not to?

Thanks

I'm not sure you need to be doing much cutting or reseating. This adds to the risk of something going wrong and it may not be required. You may only need new washers. Once the injectors are free this is an easy job. My preference is to use annealed old washers if they look ok, I find the new ones can be too hard. It is of course possible to buy new ones then anneal them. I would say the washers softness is more critical to sealing than the seat re-cutting.

rob1miles said:

I'm not sure you need to be doing much cutting or reseating. This adds to the risk of something going wrong and it may not be required. You may only need new washers. Once the injectors are free this is an easy job. My preference is to use annealed old washers if they look ok, I find the new ones can be too hard. It is of course possible to buy new ones then anneal them. I would say the washers softness is more critical to sealing than the seat re-cutting.

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Hi Rob, thanks for the message. True. I've heard a few people saying they worked fine and others saying they got stuck or were more hassle. Two injectors holes No.2 and No.3 look fine, a bit more cleaning and I should be there. The No.1 that was leaking when trying to budge No.4 has some carbon built up around the top of the hole. So I'm thinking using the old washer was the issue on that one, as that was the washer that got stuck in the seat. New washers arrive tomorrow, I will anneal them and refit and continue trying to budge the stubborn fourth. If no leaking, I shan't bother with the seat cutter. Though I'm concerned about the No.4 as it's being such a pain to budge, I wonder if that injector hole will require cutting after it budges, as there is probably a load of ****e and gunk that will need shifting. I guess - like with most things - it's worth investing in a dearer cutting set, like sealey. As a lot of them seem to be the standard Chinese style ones. Cheers

It's recommended for MB injectors to use the specified grease & I did.
Don't know if it's the same for yours but it can't hurt.

The comment about the new seals being very hard was certainly borne out by my experience with the Sprinter.
Possibly annealing the new genuine (from my local Mertrux) ones may have done the trick but I was getting a bit fed up of taking out the same injectors very soon after resealing & the Honda ones were excellent.
If replacing after blow-by failure don't reuse the old one.

rob1miles said:

I'm not sure you need to be doing much cutting or reseating. This adds to the risk of something going wrong and it may not be required. You may only need new washers. Once the injectors are free this is an easy job. My preference is to use annealed old washers if they look ok, I find the new ones can be too hard. It is of course possible to buy new ones then anneal them. I would say the washers softness is more critical to sealing than the seat re-cutting.

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Never annealed a new or old washer before, I have a butane torch, how long would one heat the new washer and how long for cooling in the bucket, I guess they're pretty thin gauge. I guess until they're cherry red and a few minutes cooling off or back to normal colour. Thanks

Scrap of soap on them, heat until it turns black, allow to cool. If you get it right they are very easy to bend. Once they are done up they harden.

rob1miles said:

Scrap of soap on them, heat until it turns black, allow to cool. If you get it right they are very easy to bend. Once they are done up they harden.

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Brill, thanks Rob. I'll be sorting tomorrow once this weather eases up. cheers.

Heat till cherry red, doesnt matter with copper if you quench it or not

I have always quenched them after heating.

Heated cherry red & left to cool.
Used to do that with BSA & Triumph copper head gaskets back in the 70s.
I'm not sure air cool or quench makes any difference with copper.

Hello all, me again. I think it will be a matter of just driving around until No.4 injector pops up enough for me to heave the bugger out. I've stopped the leak in No.1 and got the engine up to temp with No.4 clamp loose, no movement. I guess it will be the case of drive it until she pops. Question. I have annealed washers and cleaned 3 injectors as best I can, re seated. Is it wise to drive around with injectors in their current state? Ideally I'd have liked to have just got No.4 out, sent them off for servicing then replaced and job done, but life ain't that easy. I also cleaned the seats and holes as best I could, I didn't use a seat cutter as although I have one to hand, I've heard of further issues it can cause. I may do so when I finally come to re fitting the refurbished injectors once I can get the last one out, but for now, is it OK to drive as is?

Thanks all.
Jim

NightShadow91 said:

Hello all, me again. I think it will be a matter of just driving around until No.4 injector pops up enough for me to heave the bugger out. I've stopped the leak in No.1 and got the engine up to temp with No.4 clamp loose, no movement. I guess it will be the case of drive it until she pops. Question. I have annealed washers and cleaned 3 injectors as best I can, re seated. Is it wise to drive around with injectors in their current state? Ideally I'd have liked to have just got No.4 out, sent them off for servicing then replaced and job done, but life ain't that easy. I also cleaned the seats and holes as best I could, I didn't use a seat cutter as although I have one to hand, I've heard of further issues it can cause. I may do so when I finally come to re fitting the refurbished injectors once I can get the last one out, but for now, is it OK to drive as is?

Thanks all.
Jim

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I think it was mentioned further up the thread, but you dont actually use the seat cutter to recut the seat, more to clean them and lightly polish the surface, same as regrinding a valve seat in a cylinder head.

lynall said:

I think it was mentioned further up the thread, but you dont actually use the seat cutter to recut the seat, more to clean them and lightly polish the surface, same as regrinding a valve seat in a cylinder head.

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Yeh, I meant more choosing the right one. I have a sealey kit, so I guess would be better than a cheaper brand as I now some of them work out too tight for the hole. No.1 had some build up around the inside, so think I will give them a gentle clean before finally getting the refurbed units in. Just need to budge this stubborn injector.

I would not assume because it is sealey it is decent quality.
In the mechanics world sealey are the britpart of the tool world!
Sealey are like britpart/bearmach they make nowt and are the middle man, some of their stuff is bloody good, other stuff is just plain crap, prices are sometimes crazily high as well.

If the injectors aren't leaking then leave them alone.
You're in danger of overthinking this.