200tdi breathing heavily and losing oil

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the_wolf

the_wolf

Well-Known Member
Posts
16,791
Location
Stonehouse, Scotland
Right I really should get to the bottom of this. After changing my oil again I was messing about in the engine tonight and noticed that the right hand side of the engine block is soaked, which always seems to be the case. I thought originally that perhaps the oil return pipe was leaking but not so and I've cleaned out the cyclone a few times, it must only leak when its running and its not the rocker cover gasket as this is new and I've cleaned that and kept an eye on it. My oil catch tank was full of a thick sludge so I'm glad that didn't make its way into the air intake but I'm concerned as to how heavy the engine seems to be breathing. With the engine running there is an obvious mist coming out of the oil filler cap and I can see evidence of where the oil has been leaking from the actual cap itself and down the side of the block but I wouldn't have thought that oil would well up that sufficiently to cause it to leak from here.

I'm not sure on this to be honest and after having searched I'm still finding trouble finding a decent answer. Few things point to head gasket but besides the breathing and oil loss I've never had any other problems
 
there will allways be some vapour especially from cold ,depends on how much and pressure coming out ,you could check tappets and compression ,might just need a new cap
 
too much pressure would as would poor cap ie poor rubber washer or not fully tightening , a tdi shouldnt need the crank case venting to a bottle maybe you need a new cyclone if there isnt excessive crankcase pressure, if any tappets seems to be really loose look at pushrod and follower it runs on
 
jamesmartin said:
too much pressure would as would poor cap ie poor rubber washer or not fully tightening , a tdi shouldnt need the crank case venting to a bottle maybe you need a new cyclone if there isnt excessive crankcase pressure, if any tappets seems to be really loose look at pushrod and follower it runs on
Click to expand...

So just to clarify as I'm a bit clueless when it comes to this. Set valve clearances but that's about all I've had to do under there. Would dodgy valve stem caps cause excessive pressure, if its not a fault cyclone? If tappets are loose what would I have to do with regards to the pushrod and followers.

Sorry for sounding thick but I've been having a look about the internet and can't find any one straight answer so a layman's guide would be much appreciated :)
 
the_wolf said:
So just to clarify as I'm a bit clueless when it comes to this. Set valve clearances but that's about all I've had to do under there. Would dodgy valve stem caps cause excessive pressure, if its not a fault cyclone? If tappets are loose what would I have to do with regards to the pushrod and followers.

Sorry for sounding thick but I've been having a look about the internet and can't find any one straight answer so a layman's guide would be much appreciated :)
Click to expand...

A valve oil seal or worn valves could cause some pressure, but if the valve seat (where it seals in the head) is good then it will not be a lot. I suppose it depends on how bad the oil seals are, or how badly the valve stem is worn. With either being worn it is more likely to allow oil to enter the combustion chamber and cause a loss of oil

The cyclone breather is there to balance the pressure from the air intake, the rocker and the sump and to recycle any displaced oil. But if it's blocked then the any one of the routes could create pressurise which could cause breathing. However my money will be on either worn bores and/or piston rings or possibly a head gasket issue.
 
the_wolf said:
So just to clarify as I'm a bit clueless when it comes to this. Set valve clearances but that's about all I've had to do under there. Would dodgy valve stem caps cause excessive pressure, if its not a fault cyclone? If tappets are loose what would I have to do with regards to the pushrod and followers.

Sorry for sounding thick but I've been having a look about the internet and can't find any one straight answer so a layman's guide would be much appreciated :)
Click to expand...

to large a gap may be because valve stem caps worn or missing or could be bent pushrod or worn seat in the follower it sits on ,worn valve stem seals would usually give blue smoke on start up though you could check them by making sure they are not hard and still are flexible,once you know valves are fully opening corectly etc you can move on to compression check first dry ,then wet with a little oil down the bore
 
tetsu0san said:
A valve oil seal or worn valves could cause some pressure, but if the valve seat (where it seals in the head) is good then it will not be a lot. I suppose it depends on how bad the oil seals are, or how badly the valve stem is worn. With either being worn it is more likely to allow oil to enter the combustion chamber and cause a loss of oil

The cyclone breather is there to balance the pressure from the air intake, the rocker and the sump and to recycle any displaced oil. But if it's blocked then the any one of the routes could create pressurise which could cause breathing. However my money will be on either worn bores and/or piston rings or possibly a head gasket issue.
Click to expand...

Don't think that any oil is entering the combustion chamber as there is no out of the ordinary exhaust smoke. Little bit if I boot it but I suspect that the pump has been turned up which would explain that.

I could have a check as to head gasket, I understand that bit lol its just when it comes to the differing components of the valves I get a bit confused as I've never had to dismantle them before. There's been no overheating and (as far as I can tell) no dodgy noises. Oil level does fall eventually as its ending up all over the left side of the engine (as you face it) and I strongly suspect is leaking from the oil filler cap. The oil catch tank as I said was full of thick sludge but it did take a while to fill it and is only 250ml so not a great deal I don't think. Still what would this indicate and am I looking at a potential blockage creating excessive pressure?
 
jamesmartin said:
to large a gap may be because valve stem caps worn or missing or could be bent pushrod or worn seat in the follower it sits on ,worn valve stem seals would usually give blue smoke on start up though you could check them by making sure they are not hard and still are flexible,once you know valves are fully opening corectly etc you can move on to compression check first dry ,then wet with a little oil down the bore
Click to expand...

Cheers James, got a compression tester at work I can borrow and I guess the stem caps could be changed as a matter of course
 
the_wolf said:
Cheers James, got a compression tester at work I can borrow and I guess the stem caps could be changed as a matter of course
Click to expand...

if showing signs of wear or you could remove them completely without harm ,careful they have a habit of dropping off when tappets slack
 
Well for now I'm going to replace the valve stem caps, oil filler cap (seal probably isn't much use anymore if oils getting out there), cyclone breather (in the off chance the diaphragm inside is done), cyclone to sump return pipe and rocker to cam pipe. Hopefully this will make some kind of difference and ill check the compression when I get more time
 
Is there a diaphragm in the cyclone unit, I thought it was just a plastic spiral affair?
 
I believe there should be a sprung relief valve of sorts to equalize the pressure in the rocker cover. Haven't had the chance to go buy the bits I need yet but will hopefully make a difference
 
Well when you get the new one, cut the old one open as I would be interested, pretty sure its plain old simple no moving parts involved at all.
Dont forget theres noting to equalise as the top and bottoms of the motor are also linked by various casting holes in the head.
Some 200 engines also had an extra breather set up on the right hand engine side plate up to the rocker cover, not sure if this is an early or late mod?
Heres a pic you can see the extra pipe to the rocker cover, I know its a defender set up, but my defender hasnt got this extra pipe
 
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I saw another landy forum where someone had did just that but as I wasn't a member I couldn't view photos. I'm sure that's all that's inside it. Will cut it open anyway and have a look
 
the_wolf said:
I saw another landy forum where someone had did just that but as I wasn't a member I couldn't view photos. I'm sure that's all that's inside it. Will cut it open anyway and have a look
Click to expand...

Cool I would be interested. Just posting so I can find this thread again!
 
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