2003 TD4 Coolant going down, oil going up...?!?!?!

I'm sure most of you clicking on to this thread are already thinking head gasket failure, but to be honest other than fluid levels as per the title it's showing no classic signs of hgf. The coolant goes down slowly, going from max to min over the space of a few weeks (so talking what couple of hundred mls), but what is really baffling me is the oil level.

A few weeks back I noticed the level was massively high, well over double the max line on the dipstick, and so I dropped a load out to bring it back level. The car had been serviced a few months prior and I just figure the garage had been idiots and just whacked in too much oil, which we know can happen through faulty LR guidelines on the sump capacity. However, having checked the car again today, coolant level is around the min level but the oil level is back to where it was a few weeks back!?

I used a fairly un-technical source to look for hgf - http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/HOW-TO-TEST-FOR-A-FAILED-HEAD-GASKET-/10000000001891247/g.html - but think it was quite a well written article for someone who hasn't dealt with hgf before. However, reading it, I don't appear to have any milky residues on the expansion tank, coolant colour is the same as it was (now red as I stuck in some radweld pre-Christmas) and the oil is still as black as the ace of spades, though possibly slightly thin. Also recently fitted a new thermostat and it runs dead centre of the gauge once up to temp, no matter how long it runs for and at any speed. No hesitation issues while driving, nothing to suggest anything is awry whatsoever from the drivers seat.

I should add that it had had a bit of a misfire, and so a local indie suggested an injector could be going and dribbling fuel into the sump. However smelling it, it just doesn't smell of diesel and surely if the oil was over double the max reading on the dipstick due to fuel contamination, it would absolutely reek of derv?! Or would it?

So, I am a little stuck as to what it could be that is raising the oil level so much. There must be more to it because I have topped up the coolant really since I dropped the oil, and so the amount of coolant that has been lost in the expansion tank looks far, far less to me than the volume the oil has increased by. If not coolant or fuel what could it be?

Any thoughts appreciated

Just been and checked oil again and whilst smelling slightly fuelly - as I think most diesel-engined cars oils will, doesn't smell overly so.

However I do wonder if fuel is actually getting in through a faulty injector and that the coolant level is a leaking rad pipe etc, and that the two are entirely unrelated. As I say if any other symptoms of hgf were present, I'd just think it was that, but they dont seem to be.

So, if I start thinking about injectors, should a decent garage with some diagnostic equipment be able to tell which injector is playing up? Or even a simple way of telling of diesel is indeed mixing in the oil?

One final thing I neglected to mention, I have recently swapped the fuel rail pressure sensor harness, but not the sensor so am wondering if there is anything there either.

Sounds like you have a slight coolant leak. Check around the expansion tank neck for cracking.
Oil level raising is more of a problem. It's likely that you have an injector leaking down after shut down. This dilutes the oil, causing problems down the line unless the problem is rectified and the oil changed.

Ignore the muppets, check dipstick oil doesn't have diesel in it.

If it does then it's likely cracked head

Thanks nodge, that is what I am suspecting, I'm just baffled why the oil just doesn't smell of derv more.

Is there a diy method of seeing which one is piddling? Would the standard leak back test be sufficient, given that it is a 10-minute job? I agree that it looks like the two are unrelated.

The car doesn't do massive mileage so at least there shouldn't be much wear on it so I'll try and get this done asap.

If I can find out which injector needs doing, I think I read somewhere on here that some places can refurb them for £60 plus vat ish so will try and find that if I can.

Thanks

Leak back test checks the top of the injectors.

If an injector is leaking into the bore then this test won't show it - might be worthwhile taking them all out and having a look at them and if you can down into the cylinder so you can see if one of the Pistons is washed

Might be worth draining the oil taking a sample of the first out and the last out putting it in glass jars and letting it settle for a couple of days. Hopefully it should start to separate then you should see what you've got

That's a good call tiny

And thanks everyone else in a way I'm kinda glad as injectors whilst not exactly cheap are not quite hgf

wlshyd said:

And thanks everyone else in a way I'm kinda glad as injectors whilst not exactly cheap are not quite hgf

Click to expand...

The TD4 doesn't generally suffer HGF

The local indie specialist I went to said the same thing, said he has seen it but hasn't had a FL td4 in with hgf for many a year

Just a thought before I do a leak off test - could that be in any way indicative of a problem at the other end of the injector going into the cylinders, or are the two entirely unrelated?

Just been doing a bit more research, found this link on MG forum:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/land-rover-176/freelander-td4-help-336778/

Any mileage in just disconnecting injectors one by one to see which one may be at fault, and if so what symptoms should that elicit?

I'm just trying to think about whatever I can do this side of trying to remove all four injectors to check inside the head. So many horror stories of stuck injectors and knowing my luck most or all of them would be pretty lodged in after 105k!!

Nodge68 said:

Oil raising is more of a problem. It's likely that you have an injector leaking down after shut down. This dilutes the oil, causing problems down the line unless the problem is rectified and the oil changed.

Click to expand...

Would that not show up as a hydraulic lock problem on start-up? - is there any other way for diesel to get into the sump? (on my old tractor it was getting past the diaphragm on the lift pump but he does not have one of them for sure (;-))

I'm actually on the drive as I speak and have removed all injectors to take a look. I will post pictures later when I'm in and clean but tbh is hard to see much wrong with any of them.

Apparently derv can also get into the sump if the seal on the high pressure fuel pump goes, but I thought mine must be injector related given that I had lumpy cold start up and so naturally thought a cylinder was flooding through a leaky injector hence the cloud of smoke upon cold start that cleared after 5-10 seconds

Ok it's reassembled, back together and working.

So, all injectors were removed with minimal fuss, only 30 mins of dismantling and they were all out. Below are some pictures of them all out. However, they all looked fairly similar apart from no. 2 (left middle as you look at the engine) was utterly caked in grease. All the tips looked similar and so I really am not sure I can tell if one is 'duff' dunno about any of you guys?

One thing to note that may or may not be relevant; upon removing the leak off pipe with the worryingly flimsy-feeling t-pieces from the top of each injector, numbers 2, 3 and 4 just had a little puddle of fuel in the top of each socket when removed, however when number 1 was removed, there was a slight sucking or gushing noise as of some fuel had disappeared down into the head, as none of it was baubled in the top of the injector connector. Found it funny how only this one made the noise and had no fuel sat in the top connector, so maybe this one isn't sealing after the engine is turned off possibly?

Also, inspecting each injector once removed, the 'collar' half way up the injector body was stuck on a couple of them (rather very, very stiff) and on a couple of others, number 1 in particular, was not exactly loose but it spun around with minimal effort.

So now I at least have the peace of mind they have all come out successfully, now I just need to ascertain which one is duff. Is this better diagnosed electronically with diagnostic tech or does what I mentioned above about no. 1 sound as though he is the culprit?

The last thing I neglected (rather forgot) to mention about my fuel pressure sensor was that I have also routed the new harness as well, though left the old harness actually connected to the old sensor, so I still have a new sensor and new harness to try out.

Any thoughts or suggestions on all this is greatly appreciated as I'm dying to get this sorted, as this increase in oil level is concerning me that in the next few weeks there just won't be enough lubrication for the motor and it'll go pop...

Thanks in advance
Dan

Last update of the day, having followed the great advice on this thread https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/fuel-rail-pressure-sensor-harness-change.154473/ I also got out today to rewire the new fuel pressure sensor harness and fit the new sensor. Turned into a bit of a long job as one of the fiddly electrics connectors that plug into the ecu fatigued and snapped, so an hour was lost finding the soldering iron and sorting that out. But in the end, new sensor and new loom in place, and alas still looks like the slight misfire is present at 2-3k rpm.

So, I've pretty much narrowed it down to an injector. If anyone can help with my comments above and if there is any way of telling which injector is kaput that'd be great as I'll either buy a recon one off eBay/Paddock/Island 4x4, or just send my duff one off to be refurbed itself.

Phew - quite a long day but feel like the process of elimination is coming to a head now...

You could try unplugging each injector, one at a time and listen for the change in the engine sound

Thanks I think someone else mentioned that too, what would I be looking for, no difference in engine tone when the faulty injector is unplugged?