2002 td4 turns over but won't start

guineafowl21 said:

What’s the low side fuel pressure?

It’ll be the wheel arch pump and filter you need to change - then go from there.

It’s unlikely to be the CCB.

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This^^^^

No tank pump means the pump and filter is in front of the offside rear wheel arch.
You need to get the low pump pressure data off the live data stream. It should be above 350Kpa, preferably 380Kpa.

Hi all and thanks again.

The garage have pinned it down to glow plugs now. They have tested all of the plugs electronically, (perhaps with multimeter), and found them all faulty.

I find it hard to believe that all of them are faulty at the same time. Are they wired in series? If so perhaps it's only one or two at fault. Otherwise maybe faulty wiring or fuse?

Thanks again.

It's common for all the glow plugs to be dead. The engine will start on 1 plug, so often failure isn't noticed until the last one has died. If the engine is hot, the glow plugs aren't used. But they are used for cool starting, even if the light doesn't show.

Yes indeed.

What I don't understand is when the engine has been running for say 30 minutes and the engine is hot, why won't the engine still start because the glow plugs aren't needed if the engine is hot?

OK I think I might have the answer.

Possibly the crankshaft sensor is faulty leading to ECU shutting down some outputs say to Glow Plug relay and or fuel supply at start time.

I think I say a reference to this on another thread here.

I had this with a Puegeot 305 once and it cranked but the engine wouldn't start.

mediaseller said:

Hi all and thanks again.

The garage have pinned it down to glow plugs now. They have tested all of the plugs electronically, (perhaps with multimeter), and found them all faulty.

I find it hard to believe that all of them are faulty at the same time. Are they wired in series? If so perhaps it's only one or two at fault. Otherwise maybe faulty wiring or fuse?

Thanks again.

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A multimeter will show an open or high resistance glow plug. Cold, they read about 1 ohm. They’re wired in parallel.

If you think it’s the crank sensor then you’d expect no injector pulse, and possibly no rev counter reading.

I doubt it’s the glow plugs, since your engine repeats the fault when hot - my Td4 will start hot with the glow plugs disabled.

What about this low fuel pressure, then?!

Not sure yet I haven't asked them.

Everytime I suggest something they say they have checked it.

I'll ask them to check that today.
☺

Well the garage has not been able to remove the glow plugs because they are tight in and leaving penetrating fluid in the threads overnight did not free them off so they have given up. Fortunately they only charged me for an hours work.

I'm going to check the glow plug resistance myself just to be sure.

They checked that the glow plug relay and it's working correctly as is the correct operation of the ECU. The low pressure was checked in the fuel line and that's OK.

I've checked on YouTube and seen how hard it is to remove stuck glow plugs and most of the videos indicate that stuck plugs usually break on removal so a special extraction kit is required and I'm happy to have a go myself.

Has anyone here done this and how easy is it?

mediaseller said:

Well the garage has not been able to remove the glow plugs because they are tight in and leaving penetrating fluid in the threads overnight did not free them off so they have given up. Fortunately they only charged me for an hours work.

I'm going to check the glow plug resistance myself just to be sure.

They checked that the glow plug relay and it's working correctly as is the correct operation of the ECU. The low pressure was checked in the fuel line and that's OK.

I've checked on YouTube and seen how hard it is to remove stuck glow plugs and most of the videos indicate that stuck plugs usually break on removal so a special extraction kit is required and I'm happy to have a go myself.

Has anyone here done this and how easy is it?

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I can’t see it being the glow plugs, but ideally you have a warm engine, and use a small 1/4” ratchet to minimise the torque you can apply. Hold it with your hand over the head of the ratchet. Oil, undo a little, oil, tighten again, oil, undo a little more - go back and forth. If you can’t warm the engine then I wouldn’t bother - change the HP regulator O-ring instead.

Thanks Guineafowl21.

I must agree because the engine won't start when it gets up to working temperature. I'll still check the resistance of the plugs since they maybe lying or perhaps have a dodgy multimeter. I'm an electronic engineer so I know my meters work.

I just read on a VW forum that a member had issues with his diesel car in the same way, (wouldn't start even when warm), and his problem was engine/coolant temperature sensor stuffing up the ECU. Another member who solved his same problem was to change the ECU Relay/fuel pump. (Ebay description of it).

You can see where I'm going on this because basically I'm being a bit timid about changing fuel pressure regulator 'O' rings due to that fact I don't know how hard it is to do. On a 2002 TD4 BMW engine where is it located and do I need to remove loads of stuff just to get to it?

I did the O rings on a mates car recently and it isn't overly hard. I took off the inlet manifold and starter motor but I believe it can be done with the manifold in situ.

Didn't make any difference to the poor starting tho and my mate sold the car shortly after so I don't know what the cause was.

Thanks Alibro.

I'm getting to the end of my tether with the whole scenario and thinking that I'll just sell it as faulty and just get a Smart Car.

Without proper diags your just guessing what the cause is but the O ring repair is cheap and fairly easy so should be the first thing you try.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landrove...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

mediaseller said:

I'm an electronic engineer so I know my meters work.

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Put your Fluke across them then! Brand new ones read 1 ohm cold, but they’re PTC.

mediaseller said:

engine/coolant temperature sensor

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You’d hope the garage diagnostics would have picked that up. Unplug test?

The HPR is the connector on the right with two Torx bolts holding it in.

Thanks guineafowl21 for all your suggestions and assistance.

Since I have to work outside on the drive and I'll be at work tomorrow the next free day and with sunshine is Saturday I'll give it all a go then.

Everyone’s help is much appreciated.

Hi all.

Just an update on my thoughts though I won't be looking at my car until tomorrow. I had a good research session on YouTube last night and a good head scratching and all my symptoms to anyway seem to tally with camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor.

On cranking the engine over there are no revs showing on the tacho, (which I hadn't noticed before), and when it starts with easy start the rev counter comes to life. I remember this happening on a Peugeot that we had before. The engine on the PUG would crank but wouldn't fire unless you wiggle the connectors into it. There are numerous vids on YT showing the exact same symptoms and when either of the sensors are changed the cars start up OK.

It makes sense when you think about it since without these sensor signals being correct the ECU won't supply supply to the injectors at start time.

mediaseller said:

Hi all.

Just an update on my thoughts though I won't be looking at my car until tomorrow. I had a good research session on YouTube last night and a good head scratching and all my symptoms to anyway seem to tally with camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor.

On cranking the engine over there are no revs showing on the tacho, (which I hadn't noticed before), and when it starts with easy start the rev counter comes to life. I remember this happening on a Peugeot that we had before. The engine on the PUG would crank but wouldn't fire unless you wiggle the connectors into it. There are numerous vids on YT showing the exact same symptoms and when either of the sensors are changed the cars start up OK.

It makes sense when you think about it since without these sensor signals being correct the ECU won't supply supply to the injectors at start time.

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Not all cars will show a tach reading on cranking, I believe, but if you do see a reading it’s an indication there’s a crank signal.

If you do want to start part-swapping (and I wouldn’t blame you) then try the cam sensor first - this is used at start-up, then ignored. Your engine wouldn’t continue to run without a crank sensor.

Hi all.

Results of investigation on my car yesterday were as follows.

Resistance reading on glow plugs was about 3 to 6 Ohms. I know they should be higher so these are shot but I don't believe this is the cause of my non starting trouble since when the engine is hot it won't start,

I pulled the cam sensor out and it looked OK but I didn't do any powered tests on it because I didn't want to start splitting cable insulation etc though I did meter out the supply to the sensor and it read about 10 or 11V on the supply and signal cable which I found a bit strange.

I wouldn't expect the signal cable to have a voltage on it until the sensor sees the TDC of the cam lobe. Unless the sensor pulls down the signal so the ECU sees that as a pulse.

I ordered an Ancel AD410 diagnostic meter from a seller on Amazon which arrived today. According to the listing it will read codes from Freelanders but I can't get it to communicate at all even after a software update so it's going back. Lying b*****ds.

Even my little ELM eBay bluetooth cheapo gives basic live data info.

The cam sensor is a Hall effect sensor which is why unplugged you got the same voltage down the supply and signal wire as the Ecus that to monitor the circuit for open etc

You cannot read the cam sensor output over diagnostics - only way to properly check it is via a scope on the signal wire