200 tdi Missing when cold

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landowner

landowner

Pensioner Pete
Full Member
Posts
13,162
Location
WA2
Having problem with 200 tdi and would appreciate camments.
Smokey (blue) when cold and missing on No1.
Ok when warmed up a bit, clean exhaust, no smoke at all.
Let it cool a little and it has a slight miss , bit of smoke (blue) and bit of a backfire when under load, all this is with intercooler pipe
disconnected to eliminate turbo.
Tappets ok
 
How are you getting backfire?

Glow plugs don’t operate when running so won’t be them. Blue smoke would be oil, so might be a cracked piston or ring. Head off to have a look.

The Tdi is pretty simply. Squirt of fuel and piston goes up and compresses. The only way it won’t be firing is either no fuel or lack of compression.
 
Pretty sure that it isn't serious, made a video but its MP4 and cant upload.
Revving the nuts off it sees a clean exhaust when warm, no black, no blue just clean gasses, popping when flooring throttle was with intercooler pipe off ( I don't understand it either ) thought it may be tappets but they seem ok
Swapped one and two injectors over so try it again when cold tomorrow see if two misses instead of one
 
landowner said:
The wiring is 2.5 n/a so glow plugs only work when key is turned to relevant position, glow plugs never used.
Click to expand...

Aah okay, mine is wired like that, won’t be that then.
I only mentioned as my 90 NA had similar symptoms and it turned out to be one cylinder not ‘detonating’ until it had been running for a minute or so. It hiccuped occasionally when driving. New glow plugs and it was fixed, however the NA needed a minimum of 30-40 seconds on glows to start lol and the tdi doesn’t need them at all!
 
I would hazard a guess fuel eqipment fault.

Are you sure its not drawing air up from the pipework/lift pump somewhere and its having to self bleed hence the misfire?
 
johnlad said:
Blue smoke at first start of the day could be stem seals
Click to expand...
Recon head not many miles ago and this is a recent development, last week.
It's definitely No 1 that's misfiring and no others, blue smoke can be lack of fuel I think so maybe an injector ??
 
landowner said:
bit of a backfire when under load
Click to expand...

If you're getting backfires on No.1 cylinder the inlet valve is leaking, possibly burnt / cracked

landowner said:
Revving the nuts off it sees a clean exhaust when warm, no black, no blue just clean gasses, popping when flooring throttle was with intercooler pipe off ( I don't understand it either )
Click to expand...

Compounds the bad compression theory, if it misfires when wide open without the turbo connected but is okay with boost, it's probably down to a lack of compression - the dynamic compression ratio is much higher with the turbo connected, disconnect it and you're left with the static 19.5ish to 1. I.e the boost masks the lack of compression

landowner said:
blue smoke can be lack of fuel I think so maybe an injector ??
Click to expand...

A lack of fuel will not present smoke of any colour - you can lean a diesel out til' it stalls, no smoke

i'd get the head off as 300bhp/ton reckoned and have a butchers
 
landowner said:
Recon head not many miles ago and this is a recent development, last week.
It's definitely No 1 that's misfiring and no others, blue smoke can be lack of fuel I think so maybe an injector ??
Click to expand...

With the rocker cover off you can see the stem seals with a torch, they have a habit of working their way up the stem.

I had similair ref the smoke and misfire, only from cold and only every now and then it would also chime onto 3 cylinders for miles and smoke like a pig, last time I was 120 miles from home, so fuel filter off and filled with injector cleaner, left at night to hide the smoke and afetr 10 miles on 3 it came back onto 4 and stayed that was for the next 110 miles.
Next came a set of injectors but it still did it every now and then, so 2nd hand injector pump and its been good for the last 6 maybe 7 years now.
 
Goc3k said:
If you're getting backfires on No.1 cylinder the inlet valve is leaking, possibly burnt / cracked




Compounds the bad compression theory, if it misfires when wide open without the turbo connected but is okay with boost, it's probably down to a lack of compression - the dynamic compression ratio is much higher with the turbo connected, disconnect it and you're left with the static 19.5ish to 1. I.e the boost masks the lack of compression



A lack of fuel will not present smoke of any colour - you can lean a diesel out til' it stalls, no smoke

i'd get the head off as 300bhp/ton reckoned and have a butchers
Click to expand...

Misfire is with or without turbo when stone cold
After warming up a few minutes then no missing and no smoke
Popping through exhaust on full load only with turbo disconnected

Going to start from cold today, swapped No 1 and 2 injectors over so see which cylinder misfires, hoping it's No 2 then injector at fault,
 
Still missing on No1 with different injector, tappets reset on No 1 and no difference so looks like a head off job.
 
landowner said:
Still missing on No1 with different injector, tappets reset on No 1 and no difference so looks like a head off job.
Click to expand...


Could still be the pump?
But that will be expensive and time consuming to get checked and head off is cheap in comparison.
 
lynall said:
Could still be the pump?
But that will be expensive and time consuming to get checked and head off is cheap in comparison.
Click to expand...
I have a spare pump somewhere, going to do cambelt before l sell it again so toss up really. Might just get head tested and new gasket anyway for peace of mind, don't want it coming back again
 
A full leak down test would show if you're leaking compression via rings, inlet / exhaust valve / mystery cracks etc - if you know a decent garage to do it and don't want to take the head off? Doesn't take much over an hour
 
Goc3k said:
A full leak down test would show if you're leaking compression via rings, inlet / exhaust valve / mystery cracks etc - if you know a decent garage to do it and don't want to take the head off? Doesn't take much over an hour
Click to expand...
I'm leaving it for a week whilst I get the Disco sorted for mot, I sold the Defender in good order but after a few weeks it developed this problem so I did the right thing and bought it back, can't see the problem being the block as it's been fine for the last seven years or so that I've had the engine, head was skimmed, checked and reconditioned last year so unless it's been abused or ingested water I'm at a loss really, all new fuel pipes and filter not done much, new Delphi lift pump etc, just a case of watch this space. Maybe I should start a pole, fuel, valves, compression ?? defo not turbo because it's the same with intercooler pipe disconnected and boost fine at 1.1
 
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