2 Radiators?
- Thread starter Yannis
- Start date
This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
G-man
BBQ king
- Posts
- 12,065
- Location
- essex.... in the middle somewhere
i feel it is more likely to over cool the engine
GingerPuss
Active Member
- Posts
- 232
- Location
- Southport
The guy obviously has his reasons... just wants to know if it could blow the water pump.
I would say it probably wouldn't damage the water pump - but you could have two taps to isolate the circuit to the second rad rather than having it permenantly open... you could just turn the taps in the cab? to divert coolant to your second radiator at the back.
I would say it probably wouldn't damage the water pump - but you could have two taps to isolate the circuit to the second rad rather than having it permenantly open... you could just turn the taps in the cab? to divert coolant to your second radiator at the back.
Teflon
New Member
- Posts
- 683
'Strain' on the atwer pump is entirely dependent of the 'head' of water you are asking it to try and lift; ie how much water is sitting how high above it.
SIII pump, from memory is a top fill pump, and basically shoves water about six inches, the length of the top hose, from the thermostat housing to teh rad, where gravity sees it fall through the rad and back into the engine.
the 'Head' is about an inch, and the volume shoved that inch is not great......
Now, stick a second rad in the back, and first of all you are asking the pump to shove the water a lot further...... which it might handle without too much bother, but the main problem will be if it has to shove that water up-hill, and remember, Land-Rovers work at huge angles of inclination, and the standard rad is only a few inches from the pump, so the 'head' added or reduced by tilting the car up or down a hill, wont effect the head much; stick a rad in the back, and just a small hill could lift the rear rad a foot above the front!
As said, lets start at the beginning: whats the 'problem' you are attempting to solve?
Where are you starting? What rad have you got; what condition is it in; what state is the rest of the cooling system, and how well fettled is the motor? Is the motor standard, or is it tuned etc?
Standard rad, in good fettle, on a standard and well fettled engine, shouldn't suffer cooling problems that would demand such an extreme solution, and even folks running tuned V8's often manage to get away with stock rads and not see it boil its block.....
And the more usual route to getting more cooling, is first a Heavy Duty, '4-core' rad; followed by the larger Range Rover Rad, and or auxilliary cooling via an oil cooler.
The 'Buggies' with rads between the braces of the roll-cage, are normally Rangie Rads in a Hybrid conversion, and are the prime rad, not a secondary, mounted there to minimise risk of getting clogged with mud.... but the later Range Rover has a 'cross-flow' radiator, that offers less 'head' to the pump, which on the RV8 is lower mounted and beefier to begin with....... Though some fit auxilliary electric water pumps to lift the water to the higher rad location, and garantee flow......
SIII pump, from memory is a top fill pump, and basically shoves water about six inches, the length of the top hose, from the thermostat housing to teh rad, where gravity sees it fall through the rad and back into the engine.
the 'Head' is about an inch, and the volume shoved that inch is not great......
Now, stick a second rad in the back, and first of all you are asking the pump to shove the water a lot further...... which it might handle without too much bother, but the main problem will be if it has to shove that water up-hill, and remember, Land-Rovers work at huge angles of inclination, and the standard rad is only a few inches from the pump, so the 'head' added or reduced by tilting the car up or down a hill, wont effect the head much; stick a rad in the back, and just a small hill could lift the rear rad a foot above the front!
As said, lets start at the beginning: whats the 'problem' you are attempting to solve?
Where are you starting? What rad have you got; what condition is it in; what state is the rest of the cooling system, and how well fettled is the motor? Is the motor standard, or is it tuned etc?
Standard rad, in good fettle, on a standard and well fettled engine, shouldn't suffer cooling problems that would demand such an extreme solution, and even folks running tuned V8's often manage to get away with stock rads and not see it boil its block.....
And the more usual route to getting more cooling, is first a Heavy Duty, '4-core' rad; followed by the larger Range Rover Rad, and or auxilliary cooling via an oil cooler.
The 'Buggies' with rads between the braces of the roll-cage, are normally Rangie Rads in a Hybrid conversion, and are the prime rad, not a secondary, mounted there to minimise risk of getting clogged with mud.... but the later Range Rover has a 'cross-flow' radiator, that offers less 'head' to the pump, which on the RV8 is lower mounted and beefier to begin with....... Though some fit auxilliary electric water pumps to lift the water to the higher rad location, and garantee flow......
wiltshire landyman
I’m back
- Posts
- 15,062
- Location
- salisbury plain wiltshire
surely one radiator working correctly is more than sufficient?
First my spec is;
Recon Military Engine 2.25 petrol
HD 4 core RAD
Electric Fan
Well the reason for my idea...
I want to get rid of the fan on the front of the engine, I have an electric fan, but I tried just that at the week end and when I got stuck every thing got a bit hot and the rad needed "topping" up with 3.5 liters of water
The reason I want to get rid of that fan is that even when I hit a puddle its starts messing and lurching about as the dizzy gets wet from water spraying off the fan.
I may be exaggerateing but when things get to hot they tend to go wrong!
I could go for a 4 bladed fan rather than one with 8 that is on there at the moment.
Recon Military Engine 2.25 petrol
HD 4 core RAD
Electric Fan
Well the reason for my idea...
I want to get rid of the fan on the front of the engine, I have an electric fan, but I tried just that at the week end and when I got stuck every thing got a bit hot and the rad needed "topping" up with 3.5 liters of water
The reason I want to get rid of that fan is that even when I hit a puddle its starts messing and lurching about as the dizzy gets wet from water spraying off the fan.
I may be exaggerateing but when things get to hot they tend to go wrong!
I could go for a 4 bladed fan rather than one with 8 that is on there at the moment.
90truckcab
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 4,739
- Location
- staffordshire
First my spec is;
Recon Military Engine 2.25 petrol
HD 4 core RAD
Electric Fan
Well the reason for my idea...
I want to get rid of the fan on the front of the engine, I have an electric fan, but I tried just that at the week end and when I got stuck every thing got a bit hot and the rad needed "topping" up with 3.5 liters of water
The reason I want to get rid of that fan is that even when I hit a puddle its starts messing and lurching about as the dizzy gets wet from water spraying off the fan.
I may be exaggerateing but when things get to hot they tend to go wrong!
I could go for a 4 bladed fan rather than one with 8 that is on there at the moment.
i dunt need an 8 blade windmill in oxford mate
ther for over seas really, wher its hot hot hot , my ser2 had an 8 blade but now has a 4, yer can tell the difference in the heating and coling times and yer gain a bit of power too, but with a lectric fan it will heat up quicker obviously a its not cooling the second its started up,
I had a 3.8 diesel years ago in a very heavy 109 , it ran a standard rad , I drove it back thru london on a very hot day in 76 without a fan due to the shaft shearing off. I ran a similar vehicle with 2.25 diesel without a fan for months , no o/heat probs .
If you have the thick series 2 a rad and a mil oil cooler , you really dont need a rad fan , have you had the radiator core rodded out , they have a massive cooling capability, used one in a 88 with a V8 no probs , with a fixed fan (non lecky) . Trying to run two rads will not be needed, and overcomplicates things , land rover never built with an option of two rads so when you look at where they have operated it obviously is not needed JMHO
If you have the thick series 2 a rad and a mil oil cooler , you really dont need a rad fan , have you had the radiator core rodded out , they have a massive cooling capability, used one in a 88 with a V8 no probs , with a fixed fan (non lecky) . Trying to run two rads will not be needed, and overcomplicates things , land rover never built with an option of two rads so when you look at where they have operated it obviously is not needed JMHO
Teflon
New Member
- Posts
- 683
So let me get this straight, and work through the logic here; Its not that the engine is working too hot, or that the radiator isn't up to par, but that you have an electric fan which you switch off, so it doesn't chuck muck about the engine bay, and then get stuck, so you have neither cooling from air-flow due to motion, nor air-flow due to the fan..... and probably a rad full of silt.......
Lets think about this one, and see what we can come up with.......
Err... I think taht the starting point has to be some old fasioned 'preparation'
First, some water-proofing of the engine bay electrics so that it doesn't matter so much if water gets splashed around; coil in a tuppaware; marigold over the dizzy, WD40 on the leads, and vaseline in the plug-caps; and condoms on all the connectors.
Splash guard made from an old milk bottle for the alternator, and lots of vasceline over the spade terminals on the starter and battery terminals.
Next, if you have it, use the electric fan, preferably with a shroud, so its not so want to splash water every where, and its effect is channeled to suck air through the radiator.
and DONT switch it off unless you are actually going through a river!
The radiator itself will want cleaning of any and all crap thats in it, which will mean taking it out and cleaning it properly with a pressure washer from behind, before putting it back. worth back-flushing it inside the core while you are at it.
Next up, to stop the muck getting in it, a rad muff or shorud to go over the front of the rad panel.
This is where it gets a bit of a dilemah, becouse the simplest ting is a bin-bag opened up and taped over the rad grill, but leaving that on while splashing through puddles means no air-flow, while wading into deep water, which is usually pretty clean, you dont actually have much risk of the rad getting clogged with mud, just 'splash' around the electrics that the vasceline, condoms and marigold should take care of reasonably well.
for 'mudding' you want something that will let air through, but not much, and for that, simplest thing is some kind of fabric 'gause' like ladies stockings...... How bigs the missus' arse?
Maybe if she's a skinny bint, you might, with plenty of qualifying expolanation first, ask for one of the mother-in laws old laddered tights!
Or perhaps less embaressingly, walk into your local Marks & Sparks and ask for a pair of 'large' stockings! (muble a lot, and say that they are for your mother or something!)
To save future embarressment, perhaps try ang p[rocure half a dozen pairs at the same time!
Anyway, stretch the material over the rad apparture in the front panel, using a bit of inginuity, and it shoudl allow air-flow, but prevent the 'worst' mud getting into and clogging the rad fins, while letting teh fan suck, should keep the air moving.
Lets think about this one, and see what we can come up with.......
Err... I think taht the starting point has to be some old fasioned 'preparation'
First, some water-proofing of the engine bay electrics so that it doesn't matter so much if water gets splashed around; coil in a tuppaware; marigold over the dizzy, WD40 on the leads, and vaseline in the plug-caps; and condoms on all the connectors.
Splash guard made from an old milk bottle for the alternator, and lots of vasceline over the spade terminals on the starter and battery terminals.
Next, if you have it, use the electric fan, preferably with a shroud, so its not so want to splash water every where, and its effect is channeled to suck air through the radiator.
and DONT switch it off unless you are actually going through a river!
The radiator itself will want cleaning of any and all crap thats in it, which will mean taking it out and cleaning it properly with a pressure washer from behind, before putting it back. worth back-flushing it inside the core while you are at it.
Next up, to stop the muck getting in it, a rad muff or shorud to go over the front of the rad panel.
This is where it gets a bit of a dilemah, becouse the simplest ting is a bin-bag opened up and taped over the rad grill, but leaving that on while splashing through puddles means no air-flow, while wading into deep water, which is usually pretty clean, you dont actually have much risk of the rad getting clogged with mud, just 'splash' around the electrics that the vasceline, condoms and marigold should take care of reasonably well.
for 'mudding' you want something that will let air through, but not much, and for that, simplest thing is some kind of fabric 'gause' like ladies stockings...... How bigs the missus' arse?
Maybe if she's a skinny bint, you might, with plenty of qualifying expolanation first, ask for one of the mother-in laws old laddered tights!
Or perhaps less embaressingly, walk into your local Marks & Sparks and ask for a pair of 'large' stockings! (muble a lot, and say that they are for your mother or something!
)To save future embarressment, perhaps try ang p[rocure half a dozen pairs at the same time!
Anyway, stretch the material over the rad apparture in the front panel, using a bit of inginuity, and it shoudl allow air-flow, but prevent the 'worst' mud getting into and clogging the rad fins, while letting teh fan suck, should keep the air moving.
bevhelee
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,151
- Location
- Bridgetown WA
well said Teflon
TheSmiths88
New Member
- Posts
- 333
- Location
- West Wales
Teflon - your engine bay must look like you drove into the back of a dustcart. Marigolds, tupperware, milk carton, condoms, bin liner & stockings?!
I'll defo vouch for the marigolds though.
I'll defo vouch for the marigolds though.
Teflon
New Member
- Posts
- 683
TheSmiths88
New Member
- Posts
- 333
- Location
- West Wales
mmmm shiny!
You must be from the dark side though ... aren't those coil springs hiding down there?
You must be from the dark side though ... aren't those coil springs hiding down there?
Teflon
New Member
- Posts
- 683
Tis tru..... I confess...... that particular boingy was an 85 four-door RR auto, I bought to pillage for its motor and transmission for my 109, it but refused to fail its MOT and the then missus 'claimed' it as her daily driver when it passed......
She then buggered off with it, and I've been too poor to afford a 'propper' landy since.... had tomake do with more boingies......... Being dissabled, had trouble finding a 20p 88"CSW auto........
Been FORCED I tell you! to suffer the hardships of comfy seats, sound-proofing, electric demister, and air-con for when its hot!
andyb66
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,795
- Location
- Middle of Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire
Marigolds and other 'household rubber products' are not designed to withstand heat for very long. I started with a rubber glove over the dizzy on my 2.25 petrol trialer and replaced it about 3 times a season due to the heat causing to the decay.
Get good HT leads that cover the whole of the spark plugs. Smear a little petrolium jelly or silcon on the dizzy cap join and around the HT leads at that end. Put the coil in a tupperware box in the cab.
Ignition problems are mainly due to water evaporating off the hot exhaust......it's the steam condensing that is the problem, but the fan stirring the water around doesn't help.
If you want to do the whole hog (assuming truck cab) fit the rad in the back in place of the tailgate with an electic fan in front of it (in the load bay basically) and then either fit the electronic ignition off something like an old MG Metro or similar that ran a 25D4 (?) distributor or get the MejaJolt system runing EDIS (Google for it. Mostly found on V8s but can be config'd for 4 cylinders).
As an aside. I once looked after a comp safari racer that had two radiators in series under the bonnet. I can only assume that the idea was to give maximum coolant capacity while maintaining the heat exchange surface area. A single larger radiator would have a lower surface area to volume ratio.
are not designed to withstand heat for very long. I started with a rubber glove over the dizzy on my 2.25 petrol trialer and replaced it about 3 times a season due to the heat causing to the decay. Get good HT leads that cover the whole of the spark plugs. Smear a little petrolium jelly or silcon on the dizzy cap join and around the HT leads at that end. Put the coil in a tupperware box in the cab.
Ignition problems are mainly due to water evaporating off the hot exhaust......it's the steam condensing that is the problem, but the fan stirring the water around doesn't help.
If you want to do the whole hog (assuming truck cab) fit the rad in the back in place of the tailgate with an electic fan in front of it (in the load bay basically) and then either fit the electronic ignition off something like an old MG Metro or similar that ran a 25D4 (?) distributor or get the MejaJolt system runing EDIS (Google for it. Mostly found on V8s but can be config'd for 4 cylinders).
As an aside. I once looked after a comp safari racer that had two radiators in series under the bonnet. I can only assume that the idea was to give maximum coolant capacity while maintaining the heat exchange surface area. A single larger radiator would have a lower surface area to volume ratio.
