P38A 2.5 Diesel Non Starter

Hi everyone, I have been using this amazing forum for some time to gain information and advice, but the time has now come to write this, as my 2000 Range Rover 2.5 DHSE will not start and I believe that I have tried or replaced most of the usual culprits. Here is the back story;

I bought the Range Rover recently as being a difficult starter when cold. I had read up and thought that I would be able to sort it fairly easily after reading lots of threads on this forum.
When I bought it, I checked the glow plugs - 4 were duff so these were replaced with Beru plugs. The battery was old, so I bought a new battery. It then started first turn of the key most mornings. Some mornings it took a bit of turning over with it seeming to run on a couple of cylinders for a few seconds and then stall, repeated a few times before it would burst into life (initially being incredibly sluggish to accelerate). Once started, It always started fine for the rest of the day... Last week I left it for a couple of days and ever since it just won't start. The engine turns but does not fire. Sometimes it hiccups as though it is trying and there is white smoke from the exhaust. I have tested the glow plug relay and I get power to the plugs.

I have checked the in tank pump - this makes noise and has been changed before. I replaced the fuel filter and checked the o rings. Fuel is pumped through fine and I have almost a full tank. I have replaced the leak off pipes. The fuel line in between the filter and injection pump had black pipe and a manual primer bulb fitted. I have replaced this with clear pipe, which is full of fuel. Even with a fully charged new battery, the starter motor slows after a few seconds of cranking as though the battery is flat so I think I may need to replace the starter (it still seems to spin fast enough).

I am not sure if this is related as I get no error messages in the message centre,but the remote key fob didn't work when I got it, I have replaced the battery and the red LED now functions but the car still doesn't do anything. Also, the bell and i buttons on the indicator stalk do nothing. This would indicate the BeCM has been replaced by one of a model where these functions were not used?

I have today had it connected to T4 Testbook in the hope to look at the injection timing and configure the BeCM. There were no options to change configuration. Trip computer was listed as not fitted and EKA/Passive as fitted. The Injection Actual value read 14.2 degrees whilst the Setpoint didn't register and displayed -3.0 degrees. Timing Modulation was at 94.38 degrees. Not sure if this indicates anything with the engine not running. Upon cranking, fuel flow was detected. The CPS also displayed engine rpm when cranking, nothing from needle lift.

I can't think of much more that I can do. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Check the earth cable to engine and any others you can find, can you feel the fuel stop solenoid on the injection pump click when the key is turned.

brianp38dse said:

Check the earth cable to engine and any others you can find, can you feel the fuel stop solenoid on the injection pump click when the key is turned.

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+1 on earth points. If need be see if you can get a jump lead or similar to the starter to earth it.

94% modulation is a lot of chain stretch or something is out. Static timing of the pump next.

How many miles has it done?

Modulation is checked at fully-warm idle.

RangeRoller dt said:

Modulation is checked at fully-warm idle.

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Listen to @wammers you did grasshopper.

Thank you for your replies. It has done just under 160,000 so yes timing chain probably has stretched a bit so will get static timing checked out. Would this give consistent poor cold starting though? Some mornings after letting the glow light go out it would fire straight away, other days it would need a few attempts, seemed quite random. Again all other starts the same day were instant. I have removed and cleaned up earth point from battery to body and the starter motor but will check all other earth points at the weekend too. I have ordered a starter motor as even with a new battery the starter was erratic in its speed. I have also found a local Land Rover specialist that will take a look at it if I can't get it started. Once again thank you and I will keep you updated.

I have a 5 series with just over 250k and chain stretch affected hot starting more for me, although resetting static timing to allow for this did improve cold starting too.
I think it would be worth checking your glow plugs to make sure, as you know with 4 dead it likely won't start.

At that mileage I wouldn't be surprised if the FIP is tired. Worth checking the output from the lift pump too.

It does sound like duff glow plugs. Beru are the dogs danglies so should be good. That doesn't mean a wire isn't broken or you got unlucky with one though.

With modulation at 94% I am surprised it doesn't try to stall approaching roundabouts. Static timing settings are in RAVE. Definitely worth checking.

Thank you all for your input. I have finally managed to get it to start today! I changed the starter motor and the engine turns over a lot quicker, however this didn't solve the issue as it took many attempts and two batteries before it started. I had to hold the starter on until the engine speed increased and it still immediately stopped, but started more or less first turn on the next attempt, it was like cold starting a Class 37 train after a freezing winter!

Video of it here;

In response to your suggestions, I checked and removed/cleaned the engine earth strap. All glow plugs were again tested via resistance and volts and diesel was evident at the injectors when spinning over. There are no air bubbles in clear hose and lift pump is working.
With it running today, I connected it up to T4 Testbook to have a look at the Injection timing. The actual and setpoint were miles apart. These were the readouts with a running, warm engine - photo attached. Actual: 14.1deg, Set Point: 0.6deg and Timing Modulation: 4.6%

There were two fault codes logged, again photo attached - 136 Fuel Quantity Actuator (RPM) (Fuel Temp) and 144 Injection Timing Deviation (RPM) (Nominal Fuel Injection Qty)

The Rangy drives with plenty of power and has restarted all day first turn of the key. My question now is, how do I get the Set Point and Actual figure of the injection timing to be within 0.5deg ? I was hoping that T4 would enable some values to be altered, but it doesn't. I will see how it starts in the morning. Has something failed in the injection pump? Many thanks once again for all of your thoughts and suggestions.

On the video it sounded like it was not getting any fuel and eventually dragged it up .

Fuel Quantity actuator could be Qservo in FIP. Perhaps it’s struggling to adjust far enough with static out? Would be better than it losing contact and I’d expect a code from inj4 (set point/needle lift) or losing contact.
If you have a dti set the static to 0.90

You have checked fuel flow rate? -
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...ing-lift-pump-to-bleed-injection-pump.182959/
Wammers you need

White smoke from the exhaust is a sign of unburnt fuel. This is either caused by poor compression (unlikely from the way you describe it running), bad glow plugs or incorrect (late) injection timing.

Set static timing for a start, engine is over advanced.

wammers said:

Set static timing for a start, engine is over advanced.

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Listen to Wammers.

Don't worry about the setpoint on Testbook. That modulation is way off mark though. Time to look at static timing instructions in RAVE.

Grrrrrr said:

Listen to Wammers.

Don't worry about the setpoint on Testbook. That modulation is way off mark though. Time to look at static timing instructions in RAVE.

Click to expand...

Set point will be all over the place until static is correct.

Grrrrrr said:

Listen to Wammers.

Time to look at static timing instructions in RAVE.

Click to expand...

^^^ this