19j worth saving ?

I've a 1988 90 with an original / period 19j turbo engine
The usual bad starting ,smoke and spewing oil out the breather
In days gone by these engines were seen as boat anchors and would be replaced with a tdi

Are they now worth saving as there can't be too many left with the correct engine

chrisstdt said:

I've a 1988 90 with an original / period 19j turbo engine
The usual bad starting ,smoke and spewing oil out the breather
In days gone by these engines were seen as boat anchors and would be replaced with a tdi

Are they now worth saving as there can't be too many left with the correct engine

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Depends what you want the car for, even if you change the engine, so long as you keep the 19j you can always refit it should the need arise.

This is a very good question. And I'd say it is a bit of a mixed bag. I don't think such an engine will ever be worth the most. And I'd guess the majority of pre-Defenders where fitted with these over the V8. But just look at how crazy people go for an original engine Series these days, including the 2.25 diesel..... people actively spending quite a bit to reverse engine conversions. There was a time when you literally couldn't give a 2.25 away, petrol or diesel. You used to see complete engines on eBay for £25 unsold. Not these days. So I think this gives a strong hint to what will happen with these Ninety's, the question is just how many years before this happens.

Also worth noting, that an 88 model is only 4 years away from historic status too.

As to engine, the TD really isn't a bad engine. They don't like to be thrashed, which is what normally causes the problems. But drive them sensible and they should last. We have 3 Land Rover's on the farm with the 19j TD engines. All still run well and combined they somewhere in the region of 700,000 miles+

The one I use is an 89 County with only 152,000 miles on it. We did have a HG issue last year and a compression test confirmed one cylinder was down on compression too. Whipped the head off and found the expected cracked piston, so dropped the sump and pushed the piston out and replaced. New HG and it is running as sweet as ever.

Its a bit of grunt work, but if you are able to do it yourself (it isn't all that difficult, just a bit oily). It also cost very little in parts, £150 tops iirc.

Out on the open road you won't win many drag races and on high speed dual carriage way or motorway you don't have a lot of overtaking power. But in the hills/mountains the TD's feel surprisingly spritely and grunty. They'll easily pull sub 30mph in 5th an pull away in 2nd gear if you want. The TD is also noticeably more refined than a Tdi. Don't get me wrong, I love Tdi's too, but they are nosey gruff things. The TD, while still very much a diesel of its time, but is quite a bit more pleasant over a Tdi in the refinement stakes.

Ultimately, I'd say yes it probably is worth saving.

Tdi engines are all old too these days and will likely set you back £1000-1500+ to convert if doing it yourself. That I personally wouldn't go this option. Td5 or M57 would be the way, although both more costly and requires a gearbox change too. Or a swap to a Rover V8. But if all you want is a run around vehicle, there really is little wrong with the TD engine.

In my view, that is a well considered summary of the 19J from 300bhp/ton. When I bought my 90 it was fitted with its original 134k 19J and I have to say that it was a very pleasant engine. A little low on power for towing heavy loads on the road perhaps, but just fine for the majority of off-road work I put it through. My only realy criticism was the fuel consumtion which never bettered low to mid-20s. It's replacement 200TDI consistently achieves 30mpg (1.2 transfer box) which soon adds up over the miles. I also wanted to run biofuels which are generally OK with the 200TDI Bosch pump, but (apparently) not with the CAV pump fitted to the 19J. Despite this I am still very fornd of the 19J and if I purchased another Landy with one fitted, I would leave it where it was and just enjoy it for what it is!

..one thing I forgot to mention- if you do keep it, it may be worth removing the breather feed to the air cleaner and routing it to a seperate catch tank- sometimes these engines breath heavilly and deposit excessive oil in the air filter housing. They can then end up running on their own oil- often with disasterous results.

Interesting that this has come up. My station wagon that I am going to start rebuilding over the next few years has the original 19j fitted. I was planning on just removing it and fitting the 200tdi that was in the engine fire (after a rebuild). originality for me is not an issue as the station wagon will no longer be a station wagon when i get to the rebuild as I am going to swap the rear body with my hardtop that has already been rebuilt to quickly get a family (modern child friendly) vehicle. The 19j runs but only so much as I have got it started the vehicles doesn't drive so I do not know what condition it is in really. As I have an engine rebuild in my future whichever engine I choose it will be interesting to follow this thread to see which is worth rebuilding and fitting the original 19j or the fire damaged 200tdi.

Very interesting ,I'm almost loathed to take the engine out as there aren't many original ones left now
The engine I have smokes like a chimney and the air filter is very oily (breather is standard so still runs to intake)
How much work is likely to be involved in sorting the engine ?

A new set or rings, a cylinder hone and injector service might sort it. If you do take the head off, it's quite common to find cracks in cylinder heads and pistons on the 19J. I wouldn't worry too much about either, as long as you don't intend to work it too hard, although, if you do have the budget, replacing anything that looks suspect is obviously the prefered way to go. Note you can still buy a complete set of pistons and rings on eBay for £150!

....Oh, and make sure that the cooling system is in good order if you do invest some money into it.

Thanks for the advice ,been googleing the white smoke and its possible it could be a timing issue

I have a 19j diesel in mine which is my every day car and I don't really feel the need to change it. I think the purist in me would say keep it original

There's a lot of advice going around from around 2006 or so, when you could buy a rotten Discovery with a decent enough 200tdi in it for not much money. Park the cars next to each other, lift the engine out and put in your old 90/110 relatively simply. You then weighed in what was left as scrap metal and recovered a lot of your initial costs. The tdi engines are noisier than the 19J due to being direct injection- this doesn't matter so much in a Disco as there is more sound deadening and interior.

Nowadays, tdi engines are all getting on a bit too, and chances are you'd be buying an engine on a pallet of unknown condition, which may or may not have all the necessary bits. Like you say, there are going to be fewer and fewer of these cars still with the original engine. So I would much rather spend the money on doing a good rebuild of a 19J than fit a tired and much less refined tdi.

FlyingPete said:

Nowadays, tdi engines are all getting on a bit too, and chances are you'd be buying an engine on a pallet of unknown condition, which may or may not have all the necessary bits. Like you say, there are going to be fewer and fewer of these cars still with the original engine. So I would much rather spend the money on doing a good rebuild of a 19J than fit a tired and much less refined tdi.

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And if you already had both engines and required conversion parts, a known good tdi (been in an engine bay fire) and an unknown tired, smoky 19j? Both engines will need a full rebuild, would you still be choosing to rebuild the 19j?

It has been a long time since I drove a 19j as I converted mine about 15 years ago, but my memories of it are that is was comparable in performance to a series vehicle in terms of performance (I have a series 3) whereas the tdi will keep up with modern traffic on motorways and A roads making it much more suited to a daily driver?

If you happen to already have a tdi of a known condition and all the bits laying around, then of course it still makes sense to do the conversion. But it's not the obvious go-to fix for a tired 19J that it used to be, as the days of cheap rusty Discos with barely run-in engines are long gone.

I can get a 300 locally for £300 (200s getting pretty rare now)

You can now buy an engine mount for drivers side so no need to cut chassis mount ,plus I'd need to make an exhaust downpipe (or but but they aren't cheap) plus radiator ,intercooler and frame plus pipes so it's not a cheap option

I'm more leaning towards sorting the engine I've got mow

chrisstdt said:

I've a 1988 90 with an original / period 19j turbo engine
The usual bad starting ,smoke and spewing oil out the breather
In days gone by these engines were seen as boat anchors and would be replaced with a tdi

Are they now worth saving as there can't be too many left with the correct engine

Click to expand...

I came across a reasonable looking/less than 80K 10J engine the other day that a guy is selling.
Drop me a PM if you are interested.

dag019 said:

It has been a long time since I drove a 19j as I converted mine about 15 years ago, but my memories of it are that is was comparable in performance to a series vehicle in terms of performance (I have a series 3) whereas the tdi will keep up with modern traffic on motorways and A roads making it much more suited to a daily driver?

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The 19j is far superior to a Series III on the road. A petrol Series should have a claimed 72bhp vs 89bhp for the TD. The Ninety weighs more, but still. A 2.25 diesel is nearer 60bhp. But the real difference is the torque, thanks to the turbo.

Out on a dual carriage way bypass style road the 19j will feel sluggish compared to modern traffic and maybe not all that much better than a Series, but should still be a noticeable step up. But get one on some twisty narrow lanes and roads in say Mid/North Wales or the Peaks. And they feel quite lively and will easily keep up with a tuned Td5 unless you are being utter wollies on the public roads.

chrisstdt said:

I can get a 300 locally for £300 (200s getting pretty rare now)

You can now buy an engine mount for drivers side so no need to cut chassis mount ,plus I'd need to make an exhaust downpipe (or but but they aren't cheap) plus radiator ,intercooler and frame plus pipes so it's not a cheap option

I'm more leaning towards sorting the engine I've got mow

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I think it has to come down to what you want from the vehicle and if you are doing the work yourself or not. £300 for a Tdi is very good (aka cheap) these days. And somewhat unusual to get one for that kind of money.

Do you know if it runs well or needs any other work?

The entire conversion will still need a few bits. So I doubt you'll be seeing much change from £1000 total.

A Tdi is certainly a more potent engine and is much more tunable. If you plan to do a lot of towing the Tdi would make sense for sure. And if you are after some speed and like to drive hard, although if honest, there are better engines these days for that kind of thing.

I like Tdi's and currently have a tuned one. But I don't think I'd personally opt to convert the 19j to Tdi power. Unless I just happened to have all the bits laying about for next to no cost or outlay. I'm not against engine swaps, I'd just be looking a rung or two higher if I was going down that route. And in reality, the 19j is more than sufficient for my current usage of the Ninety.

300bhp/ton said:

I think it has to come down to what you want from the vehicle and if you are doing the work yourself or not. £300 for a Tdi is very good (aka cheap) these days. And somewhat unusual to get one for that kind of money.

Do you know if it runs well or needs any other work?

The entire conversion will still need a few bits. So I doubt you'll be seeing much change from £1000 total.

A Tdi is certainly a more potent engine and is much more tunable. If you plan to do a lot of towing the Tdi would make sense for sure. And if you are after some speed and like to drive hard, although if honest, there are better engines these days for that kind of thing.

I like Tdi's and currently have a tuned one. But I don't think I'd personally opt to convert the 19j to Tdi power. Unless I just happened to have all the bits laying about for next to no cost or outlay. I'm not against engine swaps, I'd just be looking a rung or two higher if I was going down that route. And in reality, the 19j is more than sufficient for my current usage of the Ninety.

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I'm told the tdi is good but it is cheap and won't come with a guarantee ! Think il buy either way as a spare as I have a 90 and a lightweight with 300s in

miktdish said:

I came across a reasonable looking/less than 80K 10J engine the other day that a guy is selling.
Drop me a PM if you are interested.

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Thanks Mike I know of a 10j 5 mins from me but I'm leaning towards keeping her original