Classic 1988 EFI, converted to 200TDI, Fuel tank issues

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jwrrc

jwrrc

Well-Known Member
Posts
619
Location
Warwickshire, UK
This possibly belongs in Stupid Questions, but after much googling I've come up empty.

I have a 1988, Range Rover Classic EFI that has been converted to a 200TDI. The tank, and all hoses and lines, have just been replaced by a local garage, (paid for so I didn't get diesel all over my drive, doh!) and today I put a fair amount of fuel in.
Fuel light was on(ish - it takes a while to make up its mind that the fuel light needs to be on).
I put in £70, at 1.409 per litre. By my reckoning, about 50 litres.
Drove around 5 miles home, and parked up, came out an hour or so later and there was a small puddle of diesel, under the tank.

Does anyone know what the fuel tank capacity is likely to be? I figure they may have fitted an EFI tank to it on the basis everything was laid out that way, or a the 90/110/Classic tank for the 200TDI, so a bit stumped. Either way, I was expecting more like 80ish litres, and the fuel gauge shows 3/4 full.

Any thoughts appreciated!
 
Via google search for "range rover classic fuel capacity" got this http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/range-rover-by-year/range-rover-1992

But before worrying about capacity, find the leak. Gotta be one of these:
  • Badly fitted filler pipe ?
  • Pump / Gauge sensor gasket ?
  • Fuel Lines leaking ?
  • Hole in tank ?
upload_2021-10-22_16-0-6.png
 
pwood999 said:
Via google search for "range rover classic fuel capacity" got this http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/range-rover-by-year/range-rover-1992

But before worrying about capacity, find the leak. Gotta be one of these:
  • Badly fitted filler pipe ?
  • Pump / Gauge sensor gasket ?
  • Fuel Lines leaking ?
  • Hole in tank ?
View attachment 250936
Click to expand...

The reason for starting with capacity was "have I been a knob and over filled it" if the gauge was incorrect. So, based on your link, no I didn't.

The tank is brand new, and has a "leak tested" sticker visible on it, so I'd like to think it's not the tank... no guarantees I suppose though.

The diesel was a little frothy when I filled it, so I suspect they've done something wrong with the breather. Reason for that line of thinking is, when I filled up when all the idiocy around fuel was going on, with a £35 limit, it didn't have any issues. So it could be the tank, or the breather, but probably not the lines as they're also brand new and seemed fine with a lower level of fuel. Sound reasonable?

Thanks very much!
 
As said the pump will click off when the tank is full, and if not it'll come up the filler neck.. ;)

It could be the rubber hose between the tank and the filler tube, or the seal around where the pump/sender goes in, or even where the fuel pipes connect to the pump..
 
Henry_b said:
As said the pump will click off when the tank is full, and if not it'll come up the filler neck.. ;)

It could be the rubber hose between the tank and the filler tube, or the seal around where the pump/sender goes in, or even where the fuel pipes connect to the pump..
Click to expand...
If I try to fill from empty by just putting the filler nozzle in and pulling the trigger all the way, it cuts out and clicks like it's full. I usually have to go very gently with it at least at first, but sometimes for the whole fill. Today was a very gentle pressure, not fully open filling day, so I'm not sure if the auto cutout would work until it was overflowing and making the forecourt staff hate me.
 
jwrrc said:
If I try to fill from empty by just putting the filler nozzle in and pulling the trigger all the way, it cuts out and clicks like it's full. I usually have to go very gently with it at least at first, but sometimes for the whole fill.
Click to expand...
That's normal. My petrol '86 EFi does the same.

Fuel gauge taking its time to show the level is also normal.

This might help to determine which tank you have - & also give you an idea where it may be leaking from: Lrcat

As you've had all this just done by a garage then take it back & get them to rectify the leak.
 
Ratae said:
That's normal. My petrol '86 EFi does the same.

Fuel gauge taking its time to show the level is also normal.

This might help to determine which tank you have - & also give you an idea where it may be leaking from: Lrcat

As you've had all this just done by a garage then take it back & get them to rectify the leak.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I figured it was normal for the age of the car but it's helpful to have confirmation.

I've booked it back in with them, but I like to have an idea what the problem is likely to be before I let anyone do things, naturally pessimistic!

Having had a more in depth snout around this morning I think it's leaking from around the sender. I'd guess they didn't fit a gasket...
 
Is your sender the type that fits in the side of the tank - accessed through the rear left wheelarch?
They have a gasket and are held in place by a locking ring that gets tighter the more you turn it until it reaches its stop lugs.
Random google pics:
Lock ring: www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/414952/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_retaining_clip___range_rover_classic___defender
Rubber seal: www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/701327/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_rubber_seal___series_111___defender___range_rover_classic
 
If it’s a Discovery fuel tank it’s a large rubber O ring that the sender unit fits through, pretty certain you couldn’t leave it out or the sender unit would flop about,
It won’t have a intank fuel pump fitted , its not needed, but the return pipe feed from the Injection pump could be your fuel leak source,
 
Ratae said:
Is your sender the type that fits in the side of the tank - accessed through the rear left wheelarch?
They have a gasket and are held in place by a locking ring that gets tighter the more you turn it until it reaches its stop lugs.
Random google pics:
Lock ring: www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/414952/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_retaining_clip___range_rover_classic___defender
Rubber seal: www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/701327/5497/fuel_tank_sender_unit_rubber_seal___series_111___defender___range_rover_classic
Click to expand...
It is indeed that sort
 
Europa486 said:
If it’s a Discovery fuel tank it’s a large rubber O ring that the sender unit fits through, pretty certain you couldn’t leave it out or the sender unit would flop about,
It won’t have a intank fuel pump fitted , its not needed, but the return pipe feed from the Injection pump could be your fuel leak source,
Click to expand...
The leak looks like it's front left of the tank (oriented to the vehicle), so I'm guessing sender as the pipes all run down the right hand / driver side. Could be a pipe where it connects to the tank, I suppose :rolleyes:
 
jwrrc said:
If I try to fill from empty by just putting the filler nozzle in and pulling the trigger all the way, it cuts out and clicks like it's full. I usually have to go very gently with it at least at first, but sometimes for the whole fill. Today was a very gentle pressure, not fully open filling day, so I'm not sure if the auto cutout would work until it was overflowing and making the forecourt staff hate me.
Click to expand...
Pump nozzle shutoff happens on loads of vehicles for the same two reasons:
  • Nozzle is worn & auto-shutoff spring is weak, but garages tend to leave it until they fail completely.
  • Fuel back pressure from the sides of the filler pipe where they curve. If fuel squirts up the small hole at the top of the nozzle, it shuts off !!
Solution is usually to either rotate the nozzle slightly in the filler, or just don't insert all the way.
 
So, an update:
Fuel leak was from the sender, tank replaced as the garage said it was defective.
Engine now dying after it's been driven for a while. Take the fuel filler cap off (with difficulty) and there's a big "whoosh"... so, now the fuel starvation appears to be because the fuel breather is blocked.
 
jwrrc said:
So, an update:
Fuel leak was from the sender, tank replaced as the garage said it was defective.
Engine now dying after it's been driven for a while. Take the fuel filler cap off (with difficulty) and there's a big "whoosh"... so, now the fuel starvation appears to be because the fuel breather is blocked.
Click to expand...
From memory my Classic had a breather with a one way valve that ran up the passenger side rear of the load space.the ball bearing in mine had rusted solid so no venting, ended up with a smaller capacity fuel tank as it was sucked in.changed the n/r valve and a quick blast of compressed air in to the filler blew it back in shape.
 
tomcat59alan said:
From memory my Classic had a breather with a one way valve that ran up the passenger side rear of the load space.the ball bearing in mine had rusted solid so no venting, ended up with a smaller capacity fuel tank as it was sucked in.changed the n/r valve and a quick blast of compressed air in to the filler blew it back in shape.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's useful, I've has a look around for the breather with a view to getting the hose off and blowing it through, so I'll see if I've got the same setup. I think parallel to the filler neck is another possible routing so lots of poking around to be done tomorrow. Thankfully the place that fitted the tank is only about a mile up the road, so should get it there without damaging the tank if I can't sort it myself!
 
jwrrc said:
Thanks, that's useful, I've has a look around for the breather with a view to getting the hose off and blowing it through, so I'll see if I've got the same setup. I think parallel to the filler neck is another possible routing so lots of poking around to be done tomorrow. Thankfully the place that fitted the tank is only about a mile up the road, so should get it there without damaging the tank if I can't sort it myself!
Click to expand...
I think the small pipe near the filler neck could be the fuel return pipe. If you take the spare wheel out and remove the plastic trim (which may have a speaker in it),it may help if you remove the light cluster because it's tight in there.
 
tomcat59alan said:
I think the small pipe near the filler neck could be the fuel return pipe. If you take the spare wheel out and remove the plastic trim (which may have a speaker in it),it may help if you remove the light cluster because it's tight in there.
Click to expand...
By happy coincidence, I've got a complete set of new screws for the back lights to replace the horribly rusty ones!
 
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