110 LPG Conversion vs. DPF

Hi there,
say hello to Tinkerbell:


Year 2000 Td5, Australian Defence Forces troop carrier, brought back from Australia when we moved to Europe. I registered it as a lorry (!) in Germany where we first moved, as that was the only way to let me keep the winch (not shown here), roo bars, and a bunch of the other numerous mods on it.

The problem is, Tinkerbell is a dirty, dirty girl. 2003 is the first build year for which Germany issues "green" stickers for Defenders, so I can't legally drive it in cities. I spend a lot of my time living in Barcelona, and they're also cracking down on environmentally non-compliant vehicles. While I don't plan to take this to a lot of cities, I'd like to have the option. Here are the German green stickers:


The only DPF recognized by the German vehicle inspection agency that would get me a Green sticker, are made by https://www.hjs-motorsport.de - but they claim to only make them for Defenders as of 2001. I've also read a lot of criticisms of DPF refits (they kill power, are unreliable, etc.)

I want to keep this car. So I was considering an LPG refit, like these sold here.
For giggles, I also looked into electric conversions. But I have zero experience with any of these.

Here are my questions - any help would be hugely appreciated:

- Is anyone familiar with DPF refit kits for 2000 Defenders that are accepted Europe-wide for the various environmentally acceptable vehicle schemes?
- Is there such a thing as an electric refit that will give me more than 100-150km range, or is that a stupid idea?
- Does anyone have experience with LPG refits, and getting them past continental European vehicle inspection agencies? How reliable are those/what's the range on them? What about impact on power?
- Can anyone recommend a vendor/installer? I'd even drive the thing up to the UK for it if I have to.
- What kind of price range am I looking at for this? Is 3-5kEUR realistic?
- Anything else I should think of?
Thank you!

what not able to be run in cities..... i am getting sick of the governments they are the reason we have such stupid crap. damn europe is a place id probably try to avoid at all costs then.

Tony.

Honestly I would leave... it sounds like a hellhole

Otherwise, I would be fitting a modern V8 such as as one of the Chevrolet LS engines and running it on LPG.

I’m a bit confused. The LPG kit is for petrol engines not diesels. Are you meaning to change the engine too for this?

You can fit LPG to a diesel but it will run on a mix of the fuels. Not replace diesel. But have no idea if that would help with your emissions problem.

As for electric. I think some people have done conversions. But they seem to be one offs rather than actual kits. Suspect you’d need a huge amount of money to throw at it too.

For all that money needing to spend simple answer would be stay away from the cities and buy a gay car like Pious or feminista/metromale city car Funny with the reports of the german cars recently mention cheating of emission testing, I very surprised a dirty vehicle must feel victimised. It like a avid beer drinker being accused as a alcoholic when next to them is alco-pop junkie on ecstasy tablet while smoking skunk ask for another drink.

300bhp/ton said:

I’m a bit confused. The LPG kit is for petrol engines not diesels. Are you meaning to change the engine too for this?

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Thanks for the reply.

I am honestly completely unfamiliar with the technology. I'm just exploring options at the moment. From my poking around on line, there seem to be diesel-lpg conversions such as this one, that claim to deal with the various problems you'd expect (e.g. compression ratio, lack of spark ignition). I'm hoping someone has experience with any conversion technologies.

A lot of the engine swap offerings also seem to use American pickup V8s, but I'm not particularly fussed about top speed, and I'd need to look what would actually fit into the engine bay.

Replacing the engine was one last-ditch possibility, although I'd prefer not to drop in a petrol one if I can avoid it (gas $$$). And yes, I know it'll be pricey.

I'm currently waiting on a reply from the German dpf retrofit shop that I was pointed towards.

Wow, people seem to feel quite strongly about this...honestly, I have no problem with it.

The Defender has a large engine bay...

Even commercial truck engines such as Cummins will fit without issue... so space is not a problem. Budget and compliance seem to be the biggest problems you have.

The reason people feel strongly about it comes down to an overreach of the state and diminishing returns with regard to overbearing legislation and dubious benefits.

Europe tends to have a more statist outlook than the Anglospheric countries and are generally more accepting of controversial legislation.

nesponge said:

Budget and compliance seem to be the biggest problems you have.

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Budget's not so much an issue, I love this vehicle, even investing a significant sum will be less expensive than getting a new one, and not least, I kinda see it as being entrusted with a piece of Aussie military heritage that I bought into a responsibility to treat well, so there is that!

Compliance - that's the bunny. I have to make sure anything I drop into it passes inspection.

I'm going to wait and see what the German DPF shop comes back with, maybe that will sort me out.

The reason people feel strongly about it comes down to an overreach of the state and diminishing returns with regard to overbearing legislation and dubious benefits (...) Europe tends to have a more statist outlook than the Anglospheric countries and are generally more accepting of controversial legislation

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At risk of going off on a tangent - I understand, yet I also see where the legislation is coming from. With the recent VW emissions scandal, and a lot of research coming out about the harm of NO2 emissions and particulate matter in cities, I'm not unhappy about this, as long as veteran/antique vehicles are somehow grandfathered in. Unfortunately, mine won't qualify for that under any rules I'm aware of.

Just a note with regards to regulations, though - while you're spot on regarding inspections for mechanical compliance being stricter in Europe than, say, in Australia, with regards to emissions, the US were the first to mandate catalytic converters, they have CAFE fuel economy standards (which Europe does not - and European fuel economy and emissions testing allows all kinds of loopholes), and while American standards for CO2 emissions are more lax, European NO2 and particulate ones are easier.

Regarding Australia, ADR 79/04 is actually based on Euro5, with Euro6 being considered in the near future. So they're not that far apart...

I know way more about this than I ever wanted to, thanks to the joys of importing an overseas vehicle...