Freelander 1 1.8 Petrol Crankshaft sensor

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Struan

Struan

Member
Posts
25
Location
Hertford
Hello All
I had the Freelander cut out on me a couple of times recently. Suspect the Inertia switch or crank sensor after reading the forums. New Inertia switch is on order . As for the crank sensor it looks like the one on mine is a a dummy and just a blanking connector in the bell housing. There is a lead and connector to it but it does nothing if fitted or not. Its and R reg 1.8 petrol. Does anyone know if early Freelanders ones did not have a crank sensor fitted?

Thanks
S
 
There's a crank sensor fitted. It's more likely to be a distributor cap or rotor arm.
The crank sensor is an inductive sensor so it generally works or it doesn't.
 
An R-reg 1.8 K-series car will be MEMS1.9 and therefore not EOBD compliant. It does store codes, but the cheapie eBay OBD/EOBD code readers won't work. I have one of Phil's pscan.eu units, which works perfectly - and a nice bit of kit, particularly if you own other MG Rovers from the same period (as I do) :)

Totally agree with Nodge - the CPS works or doesn't.

MEMS1.9 does not use a cam position sensor.

It takes something to stop an engine once running - so perhaps a problem with the main ignition relay - be that peripheral via the inertia switch, or a failing relay/ damaged cable/ dirty connection?
 
rob_bell said:
It takes something to stop an engine once running - so perhaps a problem with the main ignition relay - be that peripheral via the inertia switch, or a failing relay/ damaged cable/ dirty connection?
Click to expand...
Chestnut night. Won't be the ignition relay (or at least highly unlikely even if there is said item I don't know) - but could VERY easily be the old ignition switch chestnut. The switches fail often and randomly which (in effect) is the same as turning the key off (even if it is for a fraction of a second).
 
rob_bell said:
I have one of Phil's pscan.eu units, which works perfectly - and a nice bit of kit, particularly if you own other MG Rovers from the same period (as I do) :)
Click to expand...
What year and engine is your Freelander? Did you have the pscan.eu before getting the Freelander and does it work reliably with your Freelander's engine and ABS?

In threads on here and in PMs pscan.eu has been very cagey about what actually works on Freelander - at least with my L Series/Wabco car - but I think in general. You seam to know the setup there well, referring to "Phil", is it a business, part time business or hobby?
 
Engine is 1.8 petrol K series R Reg 1997/8 ~(yes i know but it was free lol )

Being MEMS 1.9 explains no CPS then. I can remove that from the possible causes. New inertia switch will be fitted tomorrow. I assume by ignition switch you mean the large plastic multi pin unit on the end of the ignition / steering lock barrel.
 
Struan said:
Engine is 1.8 petrol K series R Reg 1997/8 ~(yes i know but it was free lol )

Being MEMS 1.9 explains no CPS then. I can remove that from the possible causes. New inertia switch will be fitted tomorrow. I assume by ignition switch you mean the large plastic multi pin unit on the end of the ignition / steering lock barrel.
Click to expand...

It has a crank sensor but not a cam sensor. The cam sensor is now needed as it doesn't have sequential injection.
The ignition switch is the plastic lump on the end of the lock barrel. They can go wrong, quite often actually.
 
Ok can anyone tell me where the CRANK position sensor is? Is it the one down below the start motor on the left had side of the engine (looking from the front)
 
You need the Rave (workshop) manual for the < MY01 cars. You can download it here (431KB)...

http://www.mydocz.com/Landie/rave97.iso

You need to open the ISO file with (something like) ...

http://download.cnet.com/Virtual-CloneDrive/3000-20432_4-173879.html

Make sure you don't download the other rubbish they try to automatically send you, just the Virtual CloneDrive. When you open the ISO file with that it becomes a drive letter on your PC just like a CD/DVD and you can open the Rave.exe which is a menuing system to various PDFs - only works on Windows.
 
GrumpyGel said:
What year and engine is your Freelander? Did you have the pscan.eu before getting the Freelander and does it work reliably with your Freelander's engine and ABS?

In threads on here and in PMs pscan.eu has been very cagey about what actually works on Freelander - at least with my L Series/Wabco car - but I think in general. You seam to know the setup there well, referring to "Phil", is it a business, part time business or hobby?
Click to expand...
Oops - missed this post!

The engine side of things (MEMS, Siemens) are very well covered by the pscan. The ABS/HDC coverage is currently patchy - largely because (I didn't know this) of the number of different versions available! Phil has it working on his wife's FL1 (TD4 - a '52 plate), but it doesn't work on mine (Y-plate 1.8S). I'll get him round to work on K-Hippo-D - he will crack it :)

I've been helping Phil to work on this kit as the pre-2001 MGF has many ECUs, none of which can be interrogated by an affordable home device. I also own a 2003 MGZTT 2.0CDTi, which again, is not EOBD compliant. After a lot of work, Phil now has a nice bit of kit that will read all my MG Rover-era cars. :D

It would be nice if he can get it to work on Land Rovers too - but there are already a few products already available in this market. However, if like me, you have a strange affection for millennial British metal, then a single scanner that covers all MG Rover and Land Rover products would be a brilliant thing.

Not sure where he is on L-series in general? I'll ask him. I believe that the engine stuff will work.

The pscan.eu is both part hobby and part part-time business. Phil's a bit of a Peugeot enthusiast, started working on a reader for these cars, and then the Chinese flooded the market with cheap knock-off tools. But then someone (not me!) mentioned to him that there was nothing for Rovers, and what happened next is what we now know as pscan.eu - an interface that was largely crowd-funded by the MG and Rover communities :)

For better or worse, I am not connected financially in any way to Phil or pscan.eu - but I do keep bothering him about things I want it to do, and give Phil his due, he generally tries to oblige! LOL
 
rob_bell said:
Oops - missed this post!

The engine side of things (MEMS, Siemens) are very well covered by the pscan. The ABS/HDC coverage is currently patchy - largely because (I didn't know this) of the number of different versions available! Phil has it working on his wife's FL1 (TD4 - a '52 plate), but it doesn't work on mine (Y-plate 1.8S). I'll get him round to work on K-Hippo-D - he will crack it :)

I've been helping Phil to work on this kit as the pre-2001 MGF has many ECUs, none of which can be interrogated by an affordable home device. I also own a 2003 MGZTT 2.0CDTi, which again, is not EOBD compliant. After a lot of work, Phil now has a nice bit of kit that will read all my MG Rover-era cars. :D

It would be nice if he can get it to work on Land Rovers too - but there are already a few products already available in this market. However, if like me, you have a strange affection for millennial British metal, then a single scanner that covers all MG Rover and Land Rover products would be a brilliant thing.

Not sure where he is on L-series in general? I'll ask him. I believe that the engine stuff will work.

The pscan.eu is both part hobby and part part-time business. Phil's a bit of a Peugeot enthusiast, started working on a reader for these cars, and then the Chinese flooded the market with cheap knock-off tools. But then someone (not me!) mentioned to him that there was nothing for Rovers, and what happened next is what we now know as pscan.eu - an interface that was largely crowd-funded by the MG and Rover communities :)

For better or worse, I am not connected financially in any way to Phil or pscan.eu - but I do keep bothering him about things I want it to do, and give Phil his due, he generally tries to oblige! LOL
Click to expand...
Freelander uses 3 different ABS systems...
Up to 2000 it uses a Wabco system.
Up to 2002 it uses Teves Mk20.
After 2002 it uses Teves Mk25.
(Years are roughly right!)
I think its the 'inbetween years' on the Teves Mk20 that causes problems for scanners. I believe the i930 has trouble with the Mk20.
The ODB compliance/protocols also changed at some point (2004?), so that might add another spanner into the works.
 
That makes sense. Mine's probably a Teves Mk20, Phil's is a Teves Mk25, and I suspect that yours may be a Wabco?

Nice to know that I have the problem child - the Mk20! LOL
 
rob_bell said:
Oops - missed this post!

The engine side of things (MEMS, Siemens) are very well covered by the pscan. The ABS/HDC coverage is currently patchy - largely because (I didn't know this) of the number of different versions available! Phil has it working on his wife's FL1 (TD4 - a '52 plate), but it doesn't work on mine (Y-plate 1.8S). I'll get him round to work on K-Hippo-D - he will crack it :)

I've been helping Phil to work on this kit as the pre-2001 MGF has many ECUs, none of which can be interrogated by an affordable home device. I also own a 2003 MGZTT 2.0CDTi, which again, is not EOBD compliant. After a lot of work, Phil now has a nice bit of kit that will read all my MG Rover-era cars. :D

It would be nice if he can get it to work on Land Rovers too - but there are already a few products already available in this market. However, if like me, you have a strange affection for millennial British metal, then a single scanner that covers all MG Rover and Land Rover products would be a brilliant thing.

Not sure where he is on L-series in general? I'll ask him. I believe that the engine stuff will work.

The pscan.eu is both part hobby and part part-time business. Phil's a bit of a Peugeot enthusiast, started working on a reader for these cars, and then the Chinese flooded the market with cheap knock-off tools. But then someone (not me!) mentioned to him that there was nothing for Rovers, and what happened next is what we now know as pscan.eu - an interface that was largely crowd-funded by the MG and Rover communities :)

For better or worse, I am not connected financially in any way to Phil or pscan.eu - but I do keep bothering him about things I want it to do, and give Phil his due, he generally tries to oblige! LOL
Click to expand...
Hi Rob,
I think one of the most important factors is that any tool should support activator tests (can't see it mentioned on his site ? ). It is of vital importance - highly valuable in all ECU testing and especially on an ABS system.In checking engine data, to check a closed loop system it is normal to be able to command a sensor set 'point' and ensure that the ecu drives the actuator to that point and compare results.for ABS Diagnosis it is - imo - essential. It looks really good so far and is a credit to him, but imo REALLY needs to have actuator control.
Good work though and a credit to him.
:)
Joe
 
Phil happens to have a Testbook now - and is slowly working his way through reverse engineering it into his interface box. Let's see what he can come up with as I need to get him round as the three amigos appeared when I got K-Hippo-D home :(
 
rob_bell said:
Phil happens to have a Testbook now - and is slowly working his way through reverse engineering it into his interface box. Let's see what he can come up with as I need to get him round as the three amigos appeared when I got K-Hippo-D home :(
Click to expand...
Regarding the three amigos Rob, I hope your ABS Modulator doesn't look like this inside...
(I had a 'spare' sent so, as you do, decided to check it out) - check the pics for superb condition.....:rolleyes:
This might cause a few issue..:D - It looked fine on the outside (the motor has a plastic cover it so you cannot see the motor with the cover on) .. this is what happens if a breakers yard sprays mild acid (alloy wheel cleaner type) as they tend to do ... and then power washes the unit, then sits it on a shelf drained of brake fluid. The Unit is NOT designed to be power washed EVER. The solenoid body is not sealed to the unit - it is simply allow to alloy with two air / drain holes in the bottom to allow the pressure changes when the solenoids open the valves. The motor is sealed by an o ring to the modulator body - but again is NOT designed to be power washed. The oscillating bearing driving the two HP pistons is in a dry area of the modulator. The whole mod is designed to be mounted in the car in a certain position to allow drainage from condensation in the valve / solenoid area.
I think it might not be salvageable lol ..the solenoids 'should' be in the head unit - not corroded solid to the valve stems.
At least I can strip down and reassemble a Wabco Modulator now (and test it on the bench) - Very useful actually as the bearing on the end of the motor (the one that drives the 2 HP pistons) does get tired with age. Actually, the ONLY thing that is good on this unit is the shuttle valve switch plate assembly - which is the normal part that goes wrong... doh..o_O
I am awaiting a 'better' one. Removed from a vehicle as is, drained and send immediately - that way I can quickly strip it, inspect it, and refill with clean brake fluid and seal all openings.... thought you and grumpy might appreciate the delightful images..
Joe:(



abs1.jpg abs2.jpg abs3.jpg HP Piston Siezed.JPG HP PistonJPG.jpg Motor1.JPG motor2.JPG motor3.JPG unit1.JPG
 
Holey moley!!!! :eek:

I hope that the ABS unit looks nothing like this! The whole engine bay is covered either in dust or in oil (that escaped from the unsealed head/cam ladder interface!) - so no evidence of "over enthusiastic cleaning"! o_O
 
Joe_H said:
Regarding the three amigos Rob, I hope your ABS Modulator doesn't look like this inside...
(I had a 'spare' sent so, as you do, decided to check it out) - check the pics for superb condition.....:rolleyes:
This might cause a few issue..:D - It looked fine on the outside (the motor has a plastic cover it so you cannot see the motor with the cover on) .. this is what happens if a breakers yard sprays mild acid (alloy wheel cleaner type) as they tend to do ... and then power washes the unit, then sits it on a shelf drained of brake fluid. The Unit is NOT designed to be power washed EVER. The solenoid body is not sealed to the unit - it is simply allow to alloy with two air / drain holes in the bottom to allow the pressure changes when the solenoids open the valves. The motor is sealed by an o ring to the modulator body - but again is NOT designed to be power washed. The oscillating bearing driving the two HP pistons is in a dry area of the modulator. The whole mod is designed to be mounted in the car in a certain position to allow drainage from condensation in the valve / solenoid area.
I think it might not be salvageable lol ..the solenoids 'should' be in the head unit - not corroded solid to the valve stems.
At least I can strip down and reassemble a Wabco Modulator now (and test it on the bench) - Very useful actually as the bearing on the end of the motor (the one that drives the 2 HP pistons) does get tired with age. Actually, the ONLY thing that is good on this unit is the shuttle valve switch plate assembly - which is the normal part that goes wrong... doh..o_O
I am awaiting a 'better' one. Removed from a vehicle as is, drained and send immediately - that way I can quickly strip it, inspect it, and refill with clean brake fluid and seal all openings.... thought you and grumpy might appreciate the delightful images..
Joe:(
Click to expand...
Jeerpers, that's in a right state! Looking at the pics, I think you're right, only for the bin!

I've had the modulator 'go' twice on mine. Each time, as you say. it was the shuttle valves. I've been lucky both times and managed to get replacements from breakers here.

I found that the round electrical connector to the loom is a bugger to separate - it is supposed to lie horizontal, but water does get in, and stay in corroding the connectors! By the time I eventually separated it, I wasn't the happiest bunny. Then when my best efforts to minimise brake fluid spillage failed in epic proportions - well, there were quite a few naughty words that day !!

The last unit I got, the breaker literally cut the brake pipes with snips and crimped them - good idea I though - keeps fluid in the system which can be cleared out if need be, but stops any debris or corrosion inside the unit. It also meant that my old unit that I took off I sealed with those pipe stubs. so its sitting safely in the garage and I can get a replacement shuttle valve sent from UK when I order other gear to fix it with :)
 
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