'03MY L322 Petrol 114k5 miles

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

RichardSEL said:
The info on Varta battery date codes I got from other forums (colour coded in South Africa apparently) and earlier years with date stamp on -ve terminal didn't apply to my old Varta Blue. Instead it's conviently stamped on the bottom of the case. Yes, really In a clock month and year format. Mine's July 2014. Just seeing now whether it'll still take more charge from that off load terminal volts of 12.05.

Stuck it on my old 4A trickle charger and time taken from 4A showing down to ½A was just on 12 hours. Or it had only <30hours-ish AHC to give. But it'll be useful for neighbours and me to do a jump start with if needed. There's always one in the winter thinking they'll get away without shelling out for another battery when theirs is on last legs...

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

backinblack said:
Had the same with my key not turning a couple of days after getting my car, also just getting a click when it did turn. New battery fixed that, then Christmas day same again started first time, 2 hours later nothing, checked battery, tightened loose +ve connection and job done.

Yes, am concerned about that especially since all this locked in Park / no key movement beyond position 1 business started soon after I had the battery changed for new. The Dynes recovery bloke did try a few things to make sure the connections had been put back correctly. But there are flying leads coming out from the battery terminal connectors.
One of which is flopping about inside its +ve. All others appear tight. Who knows what jury rigged wiring's been added during this L322's lifetime?

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

td4van said:
No EKA code on L322 - uses the transponder in the key instead so in theory eliminates the need for the emergency code
When you put the key in do you hear the ignition lock and steering lock release?

There are three sounds of relays clunking as soon as I put the one working key into the IGN. The steering lock has great difficulty in releasing. In order to get front wheels into dead ahead position recovery guy had to catch the steering wheel when it was looser to try and move it before loading as I had parked lazily with fronts pointing toward left (supermarket car park so not a lot of room)

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
As asked above - does the steering lock disengage?
If it does but the key still doesn't turn.....it is possibly the ignition lock solenoid....

The working key only moves into position 1 -- is that what's mentioned in your attach as 10º?

Saint.V8 said:
If it doesn't - have you tried turning the key about 20deg then back beginning then trying again to see if the lock solenoid will disengage.....

I'll try moving it slowly back and forth between horizontal and position 1 -- but in desperation I believe now the key's not being recognised and not training. The only time I got some training indication, the car door locks did not go down and up according to that key retrain note that I posted. Both front windows came down about 1" and stopped.
Whereas before when I did a sucessful retrain all four came down together with the lock / unlock of all doors

Saint.V8 said:
If that still doesn't work, it is most likely a the key and the EWS system is out of sync and needs reprogramming (ask @holidaychicken how he knows about this ) or the in key transponder isn't being read....or the ignition switch coil is duff....

EWS? Yes, which is what happened when I'd driven home after the battery change out. It took then. And yesterday I'd been driving about stop starting three or four times before getting stranded (to the tune of £360 folding) in Crayford. The reprograming procedure I use is what I posted earlier what I found in here from 2007.
I don't know if there's any more uptodate method. The Dynes guy tried that too.

Saint.V8 said:
The fact you get dashes on the display means the vehicle battery is so low it couldn't retain the settings.....

My red herring. Thinking about what went down yesterday afternoon, I remembered that recovery disconnected the +ve from battery as sometimes that does produce a "hard reset" to some car's ECUs. Some informational-only (amber) fault codes can be cleared that way too on Jags

Saint.V8 said:
Love these cars eh?

Humph! Wouldn't know, it's only been seven days. Didn't recon much on the pre-recovery mechanic. Never looked at any fuses, had no diagnostic, and slapped his jump start battery across my new one as the first thing he did. Waste of £60 (only had to come from their depot about five miles away)

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

holidaychicken said:
Alarm system / central locking is irrelevant as if the key transponder is ok you can unlock the doors with the key and the alarm will sound but will stop when key put in ignition if the transponder is ok, the transponder doesn’t need any power either to disengage the steering, the car does of course.

The alarm does not sound when I unlock the doors with the key. Although I don't know whether I was too quick then to put known working key into IGN. Other key that never did cause start did unlock but then alarm sounded. So I had to use good key into IGN to stop alarm

holidaychicken said:
If key won’t turn I would always try a jump start first to see if it’s power.

I've got the "benefit" of a new battery. That's what started this mess off

holidaychicken said:
Then if steering lock is clicking but key not turning

Yes!

holidaychicken said:
it is likely the steering lock or ECU or solenoid , can’t remeber which fuse but removing steering lock fuse for a bit and replacing will allow one turn of the key if steering lock is to blame - probably.

I'll try and find that particular steering lock fuse

holidaychicken said:
I think gear selector switch is another culprit as wont turn if not in park or neutral I think.

It's stuck in Park. Should've done what everyone at the bowls club (well it feels like that anyway) was telling me:
"Get yourself a Toyota that's better than a Toyota -- a Lexus"[/QUOTE]

holidaychicken · Jan 11, 2019

Have you checked and rechecked the battery terminals inside are clean and tight as I’ve had symptoms of total flat battery when the terminal although tight was not make contact.
If you want to release the gear lever to allow you to move it you can pull up the leather cover around the gear stick and there is a black lever to the right which if you pull up will release the gear lever.
Your new battery could be faulty I guess, have you measured it’s voltage ?
If your alarm doesn’t sound I would say you have no power, if your battery volts are good, as in 12.5 + try touching a screwdriver on the terminal post and the terminal clamp without touching the body work of course on the positive, when I went to charge what I thought was a flat battery I got sparks from the negative terminal before I even connected the positive which was the charging clip making the connection between the battery post and the terminal connector even though the battery was connected.

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

holidaychicken said:
Have you checked and rechecked the battery terminals inside are clean and tight as I’ve had symptoms of total flat battery when the terminal although tight was not make contact.

Not to my satisfaction. Once I've got to Argos for a cheeepo multi-meter to see exactly what volts I've got I'll know even more. Unlike cars of old you don't see the filiament bulbs go brighter and dimmer as engine revs increase. Anyways, first "mechanic" did put his carry about jump charge battery on for 10 mins

holidaychicken said:
If you want to release the gear lever to allow you to move it you can pull up the leather cover around the gear stick and there is a black lever to the right which if you pull up will release the gear lever.

Aha! Recovery guy did try tugging at various bits under that leather cover but didn't get anywhere

holidaychicken said:
Your new battery could be faulty I guess, have you measured it’s voltage ?

I'll see what it is later today. Halfords showed two in stock -- one wasn't in the stock room (!), the other was on the display shelf. Dunno what date that on the shelf one was. AFAICR from my last ship (1991!) the then new Exides we had had to be within six months of manufacture date. That was a MoD supply contract requirment... Like everyone checked of course

holidaychicken said:
If your alarm doesn’t sound I would say you have no power,

It doesn't with the good key, so am assuming the alarm control is recognising this key's transponder. But I'd have to see a block diagram to understand the relationship between alarm / immo / and key recognition ( insert whatever acronym is appropriate here)

holidaychicken said:
if your battery volts are good, as in 12.5 + try touching a screwdriver on the terminal post and the terminal clamp without touching the body work of course on the positive, when I went to charge what I thought was a flat battery I got sparks from the negative terminal before I even connected the positive which was the charging clip making the connection between the battery post and the terminal connector even though the battery was connected.

Yes, I'll go thru them keenly again later today

td4van · Jan 11, 2019

Remote locking is separate to immobiliser and the “reset” procedure with the door locking/unlocking but is only for the remote locking side not the immobiliser side.

No way to resynch the immobiliser side without diagnostic equipment but if the key disables the alarm when it is sounding then the immobiliser is seeing it as a valid key so do not think that is your problem

Saint.V8 · Jan 11, 2019

For a complete system description and block diagram, you'll need to get RAVE - as below video - and you can fill your boots with how the system works....I am not going to copy/paste it all here as it is several pages.....

I wonder who that smoother talker is

Saint.V8 · Jan 11, 2019

Just thought, if you are able to turn the key to position 1 so you have radio/sat nav screen on to a point it can show the time/date (which are just dashes at the moment as you say) then the ignition switch is unlocked as you cant get to that point in the ignition switch with it locked up i.e. the EWS (imobbiliser) system has recognised the key and has unlocked the ignition switch.....if it won't go past position 1 I wonder if the switch has a mechanical failure and is jammed up.

I am going to check in a moment to see if I can get out of park with ign switch in pos 1......I don't think you can and it has to be pos 2......will check in a minute.

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

td4van said:
Remote locking is separate to immobiliser and the “reset” procedure with the door locking/unlocking but is only for the remote locking side not the immobiliser side.

Yes, that's what I have: no remote lock / unlock. But when locking manually with the key all the car's locks engage (the tabs go down) but unlocking manually with the key only the driver's door is unlocked.

td4van said:
No way to resynch the immobiliser side without diagnostic equipment but if the key disables the alarm when it is sounding then the immobiliser is seeing it as a valid key so do not think that is your problem

Right, so I've got remote lock / unlock problem. And being unable to move the key in IGN past position 1. My understanding was that startup (permitting ignition) only could occur when the "system" did recognise the transponder in the key.

Saint.V8 · Jan 11, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
Just thought, if you are able to turn the key to position 1 so you have radio/sat nav screen on to a point it can show the time/date (which are just dashes at the moment as you say) then the ignition switch is unlocked as you cant get to that point in the ignition switch with it locked up i.e. the EWS (imobbiliser) system has recognised the key and has unlocked the ignition switch.....if it won't go past position 1 I wonder if the switch has a mechanical failure and is jammed up.

I am going to check in a moment to see if I can get out of park with ign switch in pos 1......I don't think you can and it has to be pos 2......will check in a minute.

Nope - you can move the gear selector when it is in Pos 1.....

Now, depending on how much 'strain' there is on the parking pawl in the bow, when I moved from P through R then N - there was a bit of resistance, and then when the pawl released a kerchunk as the drivetrain released tension and she rocked back on to the handbrake......obviously when i parked, had foot on brake, pulled up the handbrake and then into P....the drive train was not in a 'natrual' state of rest...and as such moving out of P took a bit of effort to release.

I usually park up, into N, momentarily release the foot brake, allow the car to settle (aslong as I am not on a hill obvs!), then back on brake, handbrake up and then into P....this takes the torsional tension out of the system....but I was running late this morning and just pulled in and jumped out....

But the Gear selector can be moved in pos 1.....but if it gets to pos 1 (radio on, etc but NOT dash warning lights etc) and no further, it could be a mechanical problem with the ign switch.

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

Thanks for the further insights. I can't, neither could mechanic or transporter driver, move gear lever out of Park with key in position 1. We all didn't know about the internal lever then, although transporter driver did tug and pull at what he thought might free gear lever coz he didn't want to slide the car on and off his low loader on those plastic shoes.

The difficulty I'm having out there is knowing what to expect, so I can say for certain what's wrong and what's not.

The head unit will only give its "Land Rover" screen, nothing else. And that switches off after a while.

Attempting to train either key according to the notes above just results in either key's LED flashing ten times then nothing.

I went through the diagnostics as far as possible: All I got that's relevent is: Security -- Security Magnet Fault; and Locking Operation Error. Yesterday, I could interrogate Immobilisation but now can't see that module coz CAN bus isn't alive.

Here's something also odd. Went and bought a real cheeepo Draper meter (Argos don't sell them anymore) LED display. Probed down onto the old battery that had been on trickle charge overnight and battery terminal volts indicated 13. Went down to car and just with the internal lights on, terminal volts on the new battery was 12.3 Which is probably why first mechanic said battery's flat and connected his jumping one. Not that it made any difference. But to me a 0.7V terminal difference like that could indicate some kind of load or a duff battery.
Later on will disconnect both terminal leads and see what the battery volts totally unconnected are.

What should be taking current when locked and at rest?

backinblack · Jan 11, 2019

Can't see a mention of having to press the brake pedal to release gear lever but would assume you know that.

FBH is common for draining battery I believe,Since disconnecting mine I have had no flat battery issues.

brianp38dse · Jan 11, 2019

12.3v is a flat battery, am I right this is your new battery if so did you check the voltage with engine running at 2000rpm under load when you fitted the battery, should have got 14.8 to 15 something if you didn't then alternator is suspect which could explain your now flat battery and other problems .

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

backinblack said:
Can't see a mention of having to press the brake pedal to release gear lever but would assume you know that.

Yes and you're quite right to check me on this. Whenever I'm in now my foot's always on the footbrake.

backinblack said:
FBH is common for draining battery I believe,Since disconnecting mine I have had no flat battery issues.

Previously had assumed this to be part for only diesels. Didn't realise a petrol L322 had them as well.
This FBH thingie comes up as part of the diagnostics check with no errors.

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

brianp38dse said:
12.3v is a flat battery,

12.3V is the new battery when installed and under whatever load's apparent before car goes into sleep mode. I did not have a meter when the new battery was fitted. And then had not experienced any of these latest issues with key not moving into Start position and gear lever stuck.

brianp38dse said:
am I right this is your new battery if so did you check the voltage with engine running at 2000rpm under load when you fitted the battery, should have got 14.8 to 15 something if you didn't then alternator is suspect which could explain your now flat battery and other problems .

Car won't start due to key being unable to move into Start position.
I've now got back my jumper leads so tomorrow will walk old battery (that now shows 13V after overnight trickle)
to be in parallel with new battery and see if anything changes.

I'm still very suspicious that this fault (as against "just" the original reported ABS sensor fault) has come up since
change out of old 2014 Varta to this new one. A cable tugged too hard could do harm especially on automotive style connectors that are crimped.

Your thoughts are very welcome -- as is that bottle of Largactil I see they're now suggesting to my family I take

Datatek · Jan 11, 2019

Should have fully charged the battery before fitting, not much point fitting a flat battery.

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
For a complete system description and block diagram, you'll need to get RAVE - as below video - and you can fill your boots with how the system works....I am not going to copy/paste it all here as it is several pages.....

I wonder who that smoother talker is

No idea. Think I've heard the voice on LBC though. Will have a gander. It seems a really worthwhile bit of software.
Might be a good idea that I read the owners' manual as I havn't got one.

Two more questions:
On the headunit, there's a section for setting start and stop times for "aux heat/vent". Is this the FBH? I put all zeros in the start and stop times.

Next to the head unit panel there's three LEDs. The book identifies them as "phone operation lights" but doesn't say what each means. Any ideas?

RichardSEL · Jan 11, 2019

Datatek said:
Should have fully charged the battery before fitting, not much point fitting a flat battery.

They're all delivered with a storeage charge that increases shelf life with a specific gravity of 1.19 or so. Thus the acid effect over time on the plates is reduced.

Nevertheless, it didn't throw any wobblies when started at Halfords, nor coming back up the A2 nor parking up to grab a coffee and a wad in Crayford. Started fine from there and drove home. Except lost key operation when I came out to start day before yesterday morning. Re-synched and all OK stop-starting that day. Yesterday morning started right up, only pottering about shopping. But after parking up in Crayford again (12 mile run A2) would'nt do anything in the car park. The rest, as they say, is history...

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