'02 Disco 2 TD5 Auto poor tickover and no power at starting.

Hi guys, Rob here. Well, the smugness has finally come to an end after four years. My face lift Disco 2 has started to develope a problem. Several months back, she died on me 70 miles from the end of a long run home (Brighton to Fort William). Recovered by local company in Killin, Lixtul. One new injector fitted and associated bits. Almost had to sell a kidney for that one.
Got back from same run this month and after over six fifty trouble free miles, she began to show a drop in power at the foot of the hill leading to my house, slow to accelerate and with a much greater 'lag' than usual (for an auto).
Next day, when I started her, she fired up first time, as usual, on the turn of the key but a few seconds later, she began to run 'rough'. Lumpy would describe it, missing on at least one cylinder would also be a fairly accurate description.
First off, I'm not a mechanic, just a tight fisted enthusiast and this is my third Disco (200tdi, 300tdi and now a td5 auto.) so I've learnt a fair bit over the years through necessity!!
I tried to rev her but she would only rev up to about 1000-ish rpm, rattling a fair bit, not the usual smooth uptake, and I noticed for the first time ever, pale, white/blue smoke at the back, lots of it. I moved off and there was no power at all. She crept away, peaking at the 1000-ish rpm with 'no guts'. This continued down the hill so I pulled into a layby and tried to rev her again. This time she revved slightly better, still rattling at bit and with plenty of smoke visible. I sat and gently did this for a few minutes and as she warmed up, she began to 'pick-up', still not right but she'd rev through the 'rough' part, the lower rpm and I pulled away again. After a run around the area of a few miles, she'd reached normal operating temp and was behaving almost normally. But not quite. This scenario has been repeated each time I tried her over the next few days.
So, I've read more post on here this week than is probably healthy for my state of mind and while there's lots of vaguely similar problems discussed, nothing identical that I could find. I've tried several 'fixes' without success but as I don't know anyone with a Nanocom or whatever around here, it's been a bit hit and miss to be honest.
She's not losing coolant anywhere and the oil level is okay, not dropping or increasing, with no obvious smell of diesel. The fuel pump primes ok and seems to run fine. I've tried to be methodical to eliminate things but I went into a sensor cleaning binge - (a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!) I disconnected the battery negative at each major component change/clean just in case.

So far, I have changed out the fuel filter and cleaned the sensor using electro clean for contacts. No change.
I've cleaned the AAT sensor and connector plug and changed the air filter, changed the MAF for an original and cleaned the sensor plug.
I've cleaned the MAP sensor and plug. I've cleaned the heat sensor and plug at the top front of the engine.
I have checked and cleaned the red and black plug on the ECU though there was no sign of oil. I've changed out the injector loom just in case.
I've changed the turbo waste gate solenoid and cleaned the connector. I also examined all the small hoses. I lubricated the turbo waste-gate lever/arm as it seemed very stiff.
Ater doing each bit, I tested her and had no luck. She still started fine but very quickly reverted to running like a bag of bolts.
I haven't cleaned or changed out the crank-case sensor yet or cleaned the gauze filter in the fuel reg but I'm standing by on advice!
I took her to a local garage with some diagnostic gear and they said it was showing a problem on 3 injectors.......!!! They cleared the faults and I'm going back this week to check it again.
My next move is to change out the injector washers and O rings. Unless anyone on here can advice other wise. Standing by to order a slide hammer, fan spanners and the bits.
So, gentlemen, I know there's an incredible wealth of knowledge on here and I've tried to use it but so far with out much success so if anyone has a suggestion, it'll be very welcome. Er, that'll be...help!!

Incidentally, the old boy who owns the 'country' garage I took her to suggested a good drive at 'at least the national speed limit' for a fair distance on a remote straight road in the area to clear the 'muck out of the turbo etc'. I tried this and again, once she reached normal operating temp, she picks up, in fact during and after this 'run', she was going well, virtually normal. Next day, back to how she was, when cold.
Suggestions chaps?
Regards Rob

Step one diags which you have done


Oil in the injector loom ?

Hi Jas,
Thanks for the reply. Checked it first thing. Clean as a whistle. Both ends. I changed it out none the less, just in case it was an easy/cheap fix. One of first things done to be honest.
First time I've had to 'work' on her so it's all down to entries on here. So my appreciation for the great posts.
Rob

You've certainly been looking in all the right places, so well done for that. My next step would be to find someone with a Hawkeye or Nanocom and and look at some " live data " whilst driving. You can monitor loads if sensor inputs as well as injector balance and air flow. Sound like you may have developed a wiring fault. Put your location in the profile. I'm sure this firum has a diagnostics locator section.

Hi Rob, have you checked to see if the fuel pump is working properly?

If you turn the ignition to position II (ignition lights on but motor not started) and stand by the drivers side rear wheel-arch can you hear it working?


Dave

+1^^^ to rule out the pump... even if you hear the pump it might be the LP side of it...the best would be to addapt a fitting to a gauge and fit it instead of the FT sensor in the FPR...you must get steady 4 bar there with engine running...it seems to me that the HP stage of the pump doesnt deliver enough pressure

sierrafery said:

+1^^^ to rule out the pump... even if you hear the pump it might be the LP side of it...the best would be to addapt a fitting to a gauge and fit it instead of the FT sensor in the FPR...you must get steady 4 bar there with engine running...it seems to me that the HP stage of the pump doesnt deliver enough pressure

Click to expand...

Bear in mind Fery that the OP says he/she is no mechanic !!!

When was the fuel filter last changed?

Hi guys, thanks for the response....sorry not back straight away but I've been sorting stuff before I go overseas again on Sunday...so I've run out of time to sort her.

In reply, yes, biglad, the fuel pump sounds ok, kicks in at pos two on ignition and when I changed the filter a couple of weeks ago (thanks Snowey) I followed the correct priming routine and it worked fine...except for the continued rough running while cold!
Sierrafery, I understand what you suggest but don't have access to equipment to fab up a gauge...My back ground is engineering orientated, albeit heavy construction, but I don't even have a garage anymore...just live in the middle of nowhere so getting bits (and I mean simple bits) is a major effort if needed quickly.
A local garage has diagnostic gear and I'll be there again tomorrow to see if the previously cleared faults are back again. She's still running rough as a badgers' a**e while cold and good but not perfect when at normal operating temps.
I just can't work out why she starts rough while cold but improves as she gets hotter.....expanding metal sealing better? Cylinders up to a temp where they're igniting properly/spontaneously?
I've not checked to see if there's anyone with a Hawkeye or Nanocom and now I've run out of time. I'll be gone until at least early Nov so it looks like a cold welcome home for me, working on the Disco outside in our fine Scottish winter weather.....I'm still looking at putting new injector seals on and possibly replacing the fuel pump, but to be honest, I'm throwing money at parts that I'm not sure are at fault but in an attempt to cover all bases but as mentioned, this'll all be in November now.
I'm loathe to put her in the hands of a stealer to sort, i've been 'bitten' a few times there.
Cheers
Rob

Further to my last post....I've just taken her for a quick run to drop one of my daughters off at work and when I stopped the smell of exhaust fumes was very strong in the cab. Could just be coming in from the rear The other point is when I got home the fuel pump seems to be making more noise than usual. Quite a loud 'whine' that I've not really noticed before.
On the run, she also seems to accelerate better....maybe as a result of other things I've done in the process of trying to find the cold running fault.

Hello Rob,
When I got my 2002 d5 auto last October she used to hunt on tickover and seem rough until warmed up. I don't know which fuel you use but I filled up on a tank of BP Ultimate and no more hunting on tickover.
I never use supermarket fuel and belong to the "add some 2stroke oil " every time I fill up. Usually Shell or BP. After all you have done, this may be worth nothing but possibly thinking about.

Hi guys, Sorry not added anything to this for a while but I've just returned from a couple of months working overseas.
There is more to add and it actually points in the direction of Jim A's post.
I arrived home and as usual, my Mrs had been starting the Landy for me and letting it run for 15-20 mins each week.
The symptoms were still the same, when starting, kicking in straight away, fine for a few secs then running rough for at least ten minutes or up until normal operating temp was reached.
I made plans to get onto a diagnostic system locally and began looking at the price of one or two new injectors plus a sensibly priced injector tool. Meanwhile, I was running about in her and the remaining fuel from my last long distance trip from home (Fort William, Scotland) to Brighton was running out. Last fill was a service area on the M6/M74.
So, warning light on, down to the local Supermarket petrol station and half a tank in.
For the first time in diesel ownership (3 Landys and a diesel Galaxy Ghia) I bought a bottle of Red X and put it in. I've almost run out of ideas and nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Next morning, as usual, started first turn of the key but tickover stayed solid! No rough running!! F*****g yea haa!
And, ironically, as I'd spent money on new sensors and cleaned and lubed everything in sight, including the turbo actuator (see previous posts), it now goes better than ever!
Gone is the slight lag at pulling away. Pulls smoothly up to and through 70...allegedly!
Can't believe it was so easily sorted.....perfect example of 'keep it simple, stupid' or 'Check the fuse in the plug first'......
Feel a bit embarrassed but if my problem/result helps someone else, I'll feel better.
On a positive note, it was an interesting learning curve and I gained in knowledge that I was able to pass on just yesterday at a local tyre place while sorting my Mrs flat tyre out. A guy was there with his Disco and as you do, we began chatting about the 'fun' of ownership and he described a fault he had that was driving him mad so the car was going. Turned out it was oil in his loom/ecu. Had a look there and then and told him how easy it was to sort. Happy man. So, thanks from the two of us to all the knowledgeable and helpful peeps on here.
Off down to Brighton again next week to visit my kids so it'll be a bottle of additive with every fill on the motorways!!
So, that just leaves me to find the slight leak on the power steering system (suspect one of the hoses, I hope) and fingers crossed the slight 'tinging' noise from the water pump will just keep 'tinging' along!! (replaced the one on my Disco 1 so not worried too much there).
Cheers
Rob