Weber 4-barrel carbs and snorkels

Hello again!

It was a very long while since I last posted something. The very good reason is that since last November the old lady is in for a partial engine rebuilt, or rather a big service.

Turned out the carbs, Strombergs, are worn out. Since January, they are in the UK for a rebuild. As of today, they are on place 70 on the waiting list. Which raises the question again, Weber or not? Initially, I decided against. Now, I consider it. After all, I managed to understand the dual Strombergs, so I'll manage the Weber as well.

My problem is that the car is, after all, still primarily intended for off road use. Not often, but for things like Tunesia, Iceland and so on. So I'd reall like to have a snorkel for dust and water.

Did anyone already install a snorkel on a Weber carb? Or knows of off the shelf solutions to install one?

No rush, as I get a loaner inlet manifold and SU carbs for now. But somehow, I do tend towards the Weber, after all 1k bucks wont make much of a difference by now!

If you've got SU on now why not leave them? They are great carbs

I'd also vote for SU's if you're below 200bhp approx. They give lovely progression especially when off road and throttle sensitivity is important. The Webers don't like steep inclines or declines as the float mechanisms can lead to flooding or leaning out.
What are your expectations on BHP?

Thing is, I have to return the SUs once my Strombergs are back one day. I have no problem with the Strombergs so, but given how long it might take to get them back, and that the price difference between tge rebuild and a new Weber is just shy of 1k, well, it had me thinking...

Rangieman123 said:

I'd also vote for SU's if you're below 200bhp approx. They give lovely progression especially when off road and throttle sensitivity is important. The Webers don't like steep inclines or declines as the float mechanisms can lead to flooding or leaning out.
What are your expectations on BHP?

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Inclines is what I was worried about, besides an air box for a snorkel. So loaned SUs it is until I get, one day if the universe agrees, my Strombergs back

I reckon you will miss the SU's once you fit the strombergs. They're a great carburettor.

I did some digging and thinking, and I do tend towards the Weber, if the price is right. I need to talk this through with the mechanic so. From what I read oblone, and I welcome feedback from you folks, is that the Weber has less issues with inclines than a Holley. If this is true, well, a car is no submarine so I could propaly even life without a snorkel, maybe. If not, some solution can surely be built I assume.

I would stay away from any 4 barrel and having to get the jetting right and then the hassle of the snorkel matching up.
The design of the storm berg is pretty much the same as an SU. Once rebuilt you will feel the difference.

Stick with what you have.

J

I like the weber. We fitted one to my 3.5 RRC, and it came jetted correctly (ordered from rpi). I also fitted a electric dizzy which did away with the points and condenser, all round reliability was awesome, once it's set up, it never goes out of tune.
Fuel economy (with a new cam) went up to 26 mpg on a long run with a light foot (and all brakes, including handbrake, adjusted very well).
I never had a problem with fuel starvation, but it wasn't an offroader as such, did all the greenlanes in it which I do with my td5 90 now, but nothing extreme. I don't personally think you need a snorkel unless your planning on being underwater alot, and the pancake air cleaner element is easy to clean and take on and off in regards to dust...horses for courses of course.
If/when I have another 3.5, either to replace the td5 when she pops, or in a series, the first thing I'll do will be popping a weber on. Best small upgrade you can do to that engine IMHO, peace of mind and oddles of omph. It's very progressive too, so on low throttle inputs it's as responsive, if not more, than the strombergs it replaced. SU's are way better than strombergs, but I'd still have the weber over them, just so reliable.

@Chalky, thanks for the feed-back! If everything goes well on my side, I should be able to pick the old lady up today with a set of loaner SUs! Long term, I do tend towards a weber now, less risk of going obsolete and overall more power, which is always appreciated.

First things first so, I still have a MoT / TÜV to pass, it is now, what, two years or so overdue...

Edit: the snorkel question is more about dust in the desert than it is about water, after all it is a car and not a boat or submarine. And I spent enough time scratching out mud, sand and stones from it when I bought after the previous owner submerged her well in the off-road park nearby!

So, I do have news! The Zeniths are almost done, so I'll have to take them back. Which would be good news, IF I hadn't gotten permission from the secretary of finance to go for tge Edelbrock one. And IF I hadn't developed a liking for the potential power gain from the four barrel one.

I did dodge a bullet so, as the four barrel in question would have ended up being a Holley, and I didn't hear good things about those for off-roading. Well, some Ebay selling will be forth coming, or not, depending on how much I have to pay for the rebuild.

Also, I did some more digging regarding snorkle and such for the Edelbrock. There are now off the shelf solution available, but that goes for the RRCs anyway.

So, option one: use air intake gear from a motorsport / racing supplier (hoses, connectors...) to connect the snorkel directly to the carb, without the air filter unit, using a 90° flange. Then use some heat shielded hoses to exit the bonnet through the existing hole and go to the filter using, again, racing intake hoses. Basically as it was before, only thing to figure out is how to connect the carb. Easy.

Option 2: More elegant, because honestly the farming machine cyclone snorkel, while being really good at being a snorkel, looks like a chimney, especially without a roof rack. A guy running a rallye support Defender in the desert doesn't have a snorkel, instead he uses ram.air intakes on the hood connected to the air box of the engine. So that gave me an idea: use those same air intakes, use a racing inline air filter unit, go, as above, to the carb air intake. Not sure about one thing so: rain. Not during driving, but when parked. I guess I need to install some drainage for rain water, as the air intake is open on top of the bonnet, somewhat. So for wading, there would be that drainage to plug. And maybe something to protect the ram intake from splash water (better be safe than sorry).

For normal usage, I'd run a clean binnet and the standard air filter. For stuff like Iceland (wading) or Tunesia (dust), I'll put the old, battered bonnet on with those cut outs.

So, if someone is looking for completely rebuild Zenith carbs with manifold, let me know! ;-)

I would get the loaner SUs swapped for your rebuilt Zeniths and try it for a while. You may be suprised.

J

marjon said:

I would get the loaner SUs swapped for your rebuilt Zeniths and try it for a while. You may be suprised.

J

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Yeah, that's the conclusion I reached by now as well. Still a bit disappointed, but even with the way to lean SU, man, she pulls!

Makes this whole snorkel thing a lot easier, and a lot cheaper as well, it reduces the costs for a well suites hose that goes directly to the air box. Done. Need to figure put how to make the snorkel moint a) pretty and b) quick release.

I need to dive again into my "How to tune the Rovet V8" I have at home. The rebuild Zeniths are still a bit cheaper than an Edelbrock, so there is some budget left for, I don't know, valve springs and rockers. The remainder will go into a, most likely not needed, gearbox swap (LT95 to R380/LT230).

Funny how I fall into the tinckering / tuning trap every once in a while!

So, update on the tuning front, preliminary of course:

Mocal oil cooler, Mocal thermostat, Goodridge braided hoses -> only need to be delivered and installed (the old one is leaking)

Tubular manifolds -> the original ones aren't tight anymore

Kent valve springs -> ordered and need to be installed, peace of mind thing with the Kent cam shaft

All new hoses, vaccum and fuel lines from Samco and Goodridge -> the heat in Tunesia killed two fuel lines and the others are, well, old and need to be replaced anyway, I even found that Samco is offering pre formed coolong hose sets for V8 RRCs, ordered one in British Racing Green

Cylinder Heads -> to be seen hownshe runs with the new carbs and all, but I am very close to pull the trigger on performance flowed heada from Turner Engineering, the last bit I can change on the engine before I have to declare it at MOT / TÜV and get properly documented and certified by them (we can change either side of the engine, exhaust or air intake, using certified components without passing through TÜV, change botha nd you have to; since nobody sees what kind of cylinder heads you have, well...)

Kent Sports cam shaft -> replaced the old worn out one already

Goodridge brake lines -> already done a while ago

Tank guard -> a Disco 1 to be installed before October, again peace of mind for Corsica and Tunesia, I did Sardinia and Tunesia already once without one so

AlliSports radiator with electric fans -> the old one is, well, old, and while I didn't have any engine heat issues so far, regardless of how extreme the heat was, the heat did cook two fuel lines and the carbs; hence some better cooling now that the engine is reving higher and has more power

Cooling circuit -> proper header tank set up, the old expansion tank doesn't look so good anymore, and since the radiator is upgraded, well, I'll just do it properly

Isolation -> proper sound deadening and heat isolation in the interior, more of a comfort thing than anything else; proper heat isolation / refection on the exhaust, carbs, fuel lines in the engine bay and on the exhaust all the way to the back

Ignition -> she already has a 123 ignition distributor, now that she revs higher at least a new coil is order, maybe even a more powerful coil with amplifier

Than I am a bit poorer, but everything is done that can be done technically, from suspension over transmission to the engine. No rust worth mentioning and a nice, clean almost but for the carpets original interior. The replacement harness falls under necessary repairs and not tuning. Same goes for the steel brake lines, those will be replaced by new copper ones. The exterior will get a good polish and some spot paint repairs, that's it. The gear box better not break down any time soon!

To be done in two or three phases between now and December, then back to the Tunesian dessert in January for two weeks! TÜV as soon as the harness is in and everything is in working order again!