So this is a shameful post- I’m scratching my head and thoroughly embarrassed by my inability to figure this one out.

so, I saved an FL1 td4 (05MY) from the crusher in the sky, and tbh it didn’t seem that bad. I paid scrap value for it and drove it home, but it was somewhat restricted in performance and cut out when trying to gently manoeuvre: according to the owner it’s an injector issue and he has one he just “didn’t have time to swap it”.

So the car was missing it’s exhaust back box, has classic LR history (n/a) and is misfiring every 4/5 seconds (the suspected injector) so I’ve parked it on what was a lawn in the front garden (and is now mud)- first thing I did was an oil and filters swap for a baseline and began to tackle the misfire/cutting out. When I got to remove the injectors, completely seized and the crank cover is smashed by no.4.

after numerous bottles of wd40, and twice as much swearing, and purchasing a slide hammer I get all 4 out, and order a good used rocker cover to replace the snapped one. Swapped it out, cleaned up the injectors (a few of the pins were stuck so loosened them with brake cleaner and soaked them/cleaned off some of the carbon). New seals and copper washer and back together she goes.

I also cleaned up some of the carbon as best I could, particularly in the injector ports, and went about trying to start the engine- no dice.

It’s been sat a few weeks due to rain/snow- battery is my thought so I stick it on charge, and when I try to fire it I put on a booster for good measure- lots of cranking but no start.

checked fuel is getting to injectors- yep, took them back off and gave them another spray down jic, still no joy. And I also have smoke(?) coming from the inlet manifold (started at no.4, then 2 and now from one and it’s only getting worse from no 1).

so my thought is either valves have gone or the timing is out- anyone ever encountered this? I’m all for taking the head off at this point but no idea how (or even if it’s possible) to then time the engine back up (dropping the gearbox and engine doesn’t seem an option parked on mud…) my only other thought would be injector are coded, or a sensor is fubar- though that would explain the blowing out the inlet…

So, I’m flapping and in need of a slap- maybe some idea of how I get the bigger going too would be useful

extra info that may be of value:
-glow plugs are reading 1ohm to engine so new ones on the way
-tried but failed to fire with both diesel and brake cleaner fired into air intake (admittedly my brake cleaner is losing its pressure so might not have got enough)
-battery at 12.58v
- 1 injector swapped due to damage, only matter if they’re coded I guess.
-mass sensor condition unknown (came on the new rocker cover)
-slight blowing under oil cap and lots of oil in turn hoses (cleaner it up and replaced crank breather).
As much as I tried to clean up the carbon, some will inherently have gotten into the chamber as I have no airline and owe the boss a hoover

anyway, thanks in advance you gems!

First thing to try, is put a spanner on the crank pulley bolt, and see if you can turn the pulley back and rather easily, like it's not connected to the rest of the engine.
It's not unheard of for the crank to fail, just by No1 crank main bearing.

Nodge68 said:

First thing to try, is put a spanner on the crank pulley bolt, and see if you can turn the pulley back and rather easily, like it's not connected to the rest of the engine.
It's not unheard of for the crank to fail, just by No1 crank main bearing.

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I’ll do it first thing, when I drove it home I hoped it’d be a quick fixer and away I went, how wrong I was
It’s the blowing out the air manifold that’s got me panicking- the engine part was supposed to be the easy bit and hence why I put it on the mud rather than the drive- more fool me

If the crank has failed, at least a replacement engine is cheap and pretty easy to get.

Nodge68 said:

If the crank has failed, at least a replacement engine is cheap and pretty easy to get.

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Yeah it’s definitely looking more and more likely how I swap them on the mud pit lawn I have no idea, but it’ll probably be easier than a head/timing. Then again, any engine I find could well have the same issue…

Merloch91 said:

Yeah it’s definitely looking more and more likely how I swap them on the mud pit lawn I have no idea, but it’ll probably be easier than a head/timing. Then again, any engine I find could well have the same issue…

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If the crank hasn't "appeared" to have failed with the @Nodge68 test, I would get a set of known working injectors (that are spraying correctly), ideally new or recon' ones. Put them in and re-try. If the engine is in poor condition and you eventually swap it out, then you have a new set of injectors to place to the replacement motor. Also I'm hearing that your motor hasn't been enjoying care and attention. If there is that much oil in the hoses, strip them and the inlet manifold off and wash them out. Check the DPF isn't plugged too, may as well look in EGR while you're getting dirty. Oh and that the engine isn't a) overfilled with oil and b) there's no diesel in the oil.

Next point, the injectors on LR FL TD4 M47 are not coded (unlike BMW 320D's). BUT, personally (and I sense money is tight), changing just one injector is folly. The ECU will adjust and compensate for injectors that aren't quite "matched". But perhaps if you change one injector and it has wildly different characteristics, the ECU cannot compensate enough because it thinks the one you put in is out of range. Or worse, it IS in range now and the other 3 are considered to be out of range (because they are so worn) and hence it won't start. It should fire a bit though with a big squirt of brake cleaner though.

Put the original mass sensor back, since you know it ran with that one.

And don't forget the crankcase filter. Is it blocked?

All assuming the crank isn't broken.

Good luck, I'll be interested in your findings.

And drink a beer afterwards while you reflect on how cold you got. If there's a swear box in the house, stay outside until calm/drunk/search party arrives.

If the crank was not broken before you took injectors out, what is the chance it is broken now? never good but I would try and start it with a bit of easy start, if it runs then stops when easy start is gone then it is not the engine but the injectors or the injectors not being told to fire

Hi first thing i would do is get a large sheet of plywood better to lie on than mud

Denboy said:

Hi first thing i would do is get a large sheet of plywood better to lie on than mud

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BRILLIANT! Love it.

Denboy said:

Hi first thing i would do is get a large sheet of plywood better to lie on than mud

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Lols- I actually use rubber sheeting as it stays dry

Nodge68 said:

First thing to try, is put a spanner on the crank pulley bolt, and see if you can turn the pulley back and rather easily, like it's not connected to the rest of the engine.
It's not unheard of for the crank to fail, just by No1 crank main bearing.

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Crank appears good…

Kerlaan said:

If the crank hasn't "appeared" to have failed with the @Nodge68 test, I would get a set of known working injectors (that are spraying correctly), ideally new or recon' ones. Put them in and re-try. If the engine is in poor condition and you eventually swap it out, then you have a new set of injectors to place to the replacement motor. Also I'm hearing that your motor hasn't been enjoying care and attention. If there is that much oil in the hoses, strip them and the inlet manifold off and wash them out. Check the DPF isn't plugged too, may as well look in EGR while you're getting dirty. Oh and that the engine isn't a) overfilled with oil and b) there's no diesel in the oil.

Next point, the injectors on LR FL TD4 M47 are not coded (unlike BMW 320D's). BUT, personally (and I sense money is tight), changing just one injector is folly. The ECU will adjust and compensate for injectors that aren't quite "matched". But perhaps if you change one injector and it has wildly different characteristics, the ECU cannot compensate enough because it thinks the one you put in is out of range. Or worse, it IS in range now and the other 3 are considered to be out of range (because they are so worn) and hence it won't start. It should fire a bit though with a big squirt of brake cleaner though.

Put the original mass sensor back, since you know it ran with that one.

And don't forget the crankcase filter. Is it blocked?

All assuming the crank isn't broken.

Good luck, I'll be interested in your findings.

And drink a beer afterwards while you reflect on how cold you got. If there's a swear box in the house, stay outside until calm/drunk/search party arrives.

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Ok a lot to respond to so I’ll Larry do it in order.
The injectors are good- spray pattern is precise and they’ve been rebuilt- though I’d rather fix by fault finding that replacement given I’m not in a rush per se.

All the turbo hoses have been stripped and cleaned of oil- think it was due to the crank filter being buggered, it’s now a vortex- will check it once running as if turbo seals have gone it could well be that, but no way to tell at this stage
There is no dpf on these, and egr has been thoroughly cleaned out along with the intake assembly- both have been steamed/jet cleaned/oven cleaner ran through 4 times over so shouldn’t be an issue- though they’re not currently connected.

engine oil is spot on, having just been replaced prior to tinkering.

I didn’t think the injectors were coded but thought it best to make sure- I only swapped one as it came with the car/one of them had a chewed up pipe thread so thought may as well. Money isn’t tight, but I’d rather find the fault than replace parts until it works- and given it’s my third car I’m in no rush (if it was on my drive rather than the lawn I’d just pull and rebuild the engine in it’s entirety).

I did try brake cleaner, but it didn’t fully fire and I’m getting a spraying out of intake 1- hence I lean towards something being amiss. I’ll swap the mass over see if it it helps (can’t be any worse right ).

crank is now vortex so no clogging issues.

I’m also thinking I’ll just swap the pipe connection on the old injector with the one on the new injector, see if it works

let’s see how we go (I’ve the afternoon off work so a few hours of daylight to crack on yey… )

That’s done

If the injectors are spraying correctly, then it should start.
All issues that cause a non-start, stop the injectors from spraying correctly.

Nodge68 said:

If the injectors are spraying correctly, then it should start.
All issues that cause a non-start, stop the injectors from spraying correctly.

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Sorry- on bench test. I tried to test in vehicle but it didn’t fire up/couldn’t see it in the wind.

I’ll add crank pulley looks newish- chain was also tight when I had the cover off.

For arguments sake I’ve swapped oil, tested the plugs and they are glowing (new ones are arriving tomorrow I think anyway).

I’ve also swapped the pipe connector on to the old injector which I knew the engine worked on (though misfired) and fit that back in place of the spare.

I’m just waiting on the battery to recharge as I tried starting it a few times earlier and it started to sound a bit weak. (Tried it every time I did something new on the off chance). If this doesn’t work I’ll call and get more brake cleaner

Merloch91 said:

Sorry- on bench test. I tried to test in vehicle but it didn’t fire up/couldn’t see it in the wind.

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Ah so you've not checked they spray in the vehicle.

Non-start could down to bad rail sensor connections, insufficient pressure in the low fuel rail (low pressure pump/s or filter), insufficient pressure in the high rail (often the regulator O rings), a faulty cam sensor, crank sensor.

Nodge68 said:

Ah so you've not checked they spray in the vehicle.

Non-start could down to bad rail sensor connections, insufficient pressure in the low fuel rail (low pressure pump/s or filter), insufficient pressure in the high rail (often the regulator O rings), a faulty cam sensor, crank sensor.

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I’ve cleaned out the connection on the fuel rail just in case it was that, can definitely hear what sounds like a pump hissing- though noticeably in the wheel well too which was quiet before

something to investigate for definite- I did notice the obd wasn’t reading anything on the rail when I was watching live data, so a sensor could be the culprit, the thing that has thrown me off is the smoke coming from the inlet when I crank it. Having said that. I did have a bit of excess pressure in the crankcase to begin with so it’s not to say the valve seals were blowing even when it ran

What's the mileage for this engine do you think @Merloch91 ?

Not the same, but I had a devil of a job starting a 250,000 mile Peugeot Partner Mk1 this time last year with new glow plugs that went duff almost instantly. On trying to start with brake cleaner, I got some inlet blow back too. So I think you're not far off recovering this.

I suspect your LP pump is not generating enough line pressure. I tend to put a one way valve on my diesels to stop leak back, but that's not relevant to your challenge.

Sounds like you know what you're doing to me. I've attached the PFJones troubleshooter for further guidance and thinking.

Also https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/2004-td4-starting-problem.373684/ posting by @andyfreelandy
"Take fuel pressure sensor connector out of end of fuel rail, clean all contacts, replace. Should be job done,"