lightning said:
Why has the Defender become "irrelevant to anyone who's in the market for a working farm vehicle"?

If that's the case then Defender does need an overhaul, as that was the core market.

Don't get me wrong l love Defenders, l drive one by choice 1,000 miles per month for my business and the missus has a TD5 CSW.
But why are farmers not buying? The vehicle is pretty much the same as it was thirty years ago.

People are saying they want Defender to stay as it is. But it's clearly not acceptable to the new breed of buyers in its current form.
Click to expand...

When you say that "The vehicle is pretty much the same as it was thirty years ago" you've summed up the core of the problem. The vehicle has hardly changed, but the world has moved on. Thirty years ago the typical LR buyer had little choice. The choice was between buying the established market leader, or a slightly dodgy, limited and largely unproven selection of Japanese alternatives.

Now, this has all changed. Assuming that the farmer isn't already using a quad for a lot of farm duties, he's got a proper selection of respectable (to them, not us) vehicles from Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi et al, all with established service and back up, all of which can have some claim (perceived, or real) to being more economical / more comfortable / more spacious / quieter / smoother / more versatile / dust and weather proof / cheaper / more reliable. With farmers unlikely to be enthusiasts and generally being pretty unsentimental when it comes to the equipment that they use, why would they pay more to have a Defender?

Add to that the scorn with which I've heard them say "is that a TRANSIT engined one?!", then there's a real perceived problem now too.

With sales to their traditional market having been tiny for years and there being a gap of at least another 18 months before there's anything to sell again, are they right to spend the time and effort building their customer base virtually from scratch? The customer's inertia will be against them this time. The only reason I could see would be to retain the brand image for the rest of the range.

May I turn the question around? You use a Defender by choice for work (which, by the way, is great to see!!). Did you consider anything else first and if so, why did you choose a Defender over all of the other alternatives?
 
It was a choice of a second hand Defender 110 or a new van.
I lost £10,000 in six years on my last van, a Transit Connect, and did not fancy losing the same again.
I took a chance with the Defender as l'd never actually driven a 110.
TBH l just like Defenders though, l like the fact that you have to actually drive them, and they encourage a more laid back/less stressful driving style.
But that's an enthusiast's viewpoint, it won't sell many new ones when people want cars to practically drive/park themselves. And most people would find it unacceptable to get soaking wet carpets in their car after heavy rain.
 
lightning said:
It was a choice of a second hand Defender 110 or a new van.
I lost £10,000 in six years on my last van, a Transit Connect, and did not fancy losing the same again.
I took a chance with the Defender as l'd never actually driven a 110.
TBH l just like Defenders though, l like the fact that you have to actually drive them, and they encourage a more laid back/less stressful driving style.
But that's an enthusiast's viewpoint, it won't sell many new ones when people want cars to practically drive/park themselves. And most people would find it unacceptable to get soaking wet carpets in their car after heavy rain.
Click to expand...
£10,000 depreciation in 6 years? RRs can do that in 1 year!
 
I know they can! But people who buy Range Rovers can probably afford to write that off.
Many are bought through companies anyway.
I'd rather not drop £10,000 if l can avoid it, although it's pretty normal in car ownership.
 
Having a chat with someone purporting to be in the know, the old defender is going to be built in Czechoslovakia possibly starting as early as 2017, EU rules writing it off was a smoke screen to the fact that nut and bolt production at UK labour rates was just too costly. He also said the engine is undecided but it is likely there will be less electrickery.
 
All joking aside, if there is any credibility in this it just takes someone who doesn't really know much about eastern Europe hears Slovakia or Czech and remembers it in their head as Czechoslovakia - it would not surprise me one bit if UK labour costs were the true reason the Defender ceased production this year.

Does anyone reliably know who bought the panel presses etc. I heard there was a buyer who apparently was going to use them to make good pattern panels... could it be these good pattern panels are going to be used on a new build Defender?

Although, I think there would be a row if LR started making it again after all the Euro rules nonsense - having said that, we are out the EU now so can we not make it anyway - sell it in the UK and non EU countries.
 
Czech Republic is so much easier to spell.
I still like the idea that parent company Tata will take it back to India and start making it, although they have Jag & Land Rover do they really need an old design like Defender to impact their image as a global innovative company; if that's what they are...
 
The ole tratter has stopped production and won't be made again. The track was taken apart as soon as the last ones came oft the end. The space is currently being used for storage of parts for manufacturing vehicles on the Solihull site. They won't be moving the ole tratter track anywhere. There is a company making panels. Can't remember the name. They're in wales. In or out of Europe doesn't matter. Sadly the result is the same. The ole tratter has stopped and won't start again.
 
Were they still making money out of it at the end?
As in before the last rush to buy in 2015. Land Rover will build cars that make them money.
 
it probably made them money but not enough, and not fast enough for tata. All other products can be made fast and with a much lower human input (saving £££££) The defender replacement will certainly not be made in the same way as the old ones were
 
The Defenderer was a ridiculous price in its final run with only Solicitors buying them to negotiate puddles outside work.
 
But they sold.....and that's what counts at Land Rover.
They clearly profited from the run out models and that's par for the course.
The Defender has had its' day as a new vehicle.
These days people want a car that parks itself, and can connect to the internet. They want to feel like they are saving the planet (l say feel like as a Defender is one of the best cars you can buy for that)
But sadly times have changed. Everybody is on the phone, in a rush, no time to mess with cars. Wants to sit at 90mph in the outside lane. Book it in when the "SERVICE" message appears on the LED dashboard.

The Defender is an enthusiasts vehicle now, and owned by people who want an old style driving experience, or can see past the "Eco Blue/Tech/Drive/etc" cobblers.
Fortunately there are plenty (of Defenders) about so there's never going to be a shortage for those who want one.
 
lightning said:
Were they still making money out of it at the end?
As in before the last rush to buy in 2015. Land Rover will build cars that make them money.
Click to expand...
Yes they were making a profit.

doriz said:
The Defenderer was a ridiculous price in its final run with only Solicitors buying them to negotiate puddles outside work.
Click to expand...
Only the special models were priced higher. If you got a normal model it were normal price.
 
Why not biff out a few special editions at silly money? There's enough people these days with money piled up in their bank account.
And these days the last Defenders will be an "investment" purchase for many. To be honest l think if you can afford it, then why not?
Better than an ISA (mine's currently paying 0.25% interest PA)
 
lightning said:
Why not biff out a few special editions at silly money? There's enough people these days with money piled up in their bank account.
And these days the last Defenders will be an "investment" purchase for many. To be honest l think if you can afford it, then why not?
Better than an ISA (mine's currently paying 0.25% interest PA)
Click to expand...
LR made a load of specials near the end. You would think they would have done more with some versions selling out quickly.
 
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