julianf

Well-Known Member
Our defender is on the log book as a 12 seated, which, supposedly means its LEZ exempt (not that I even want to go to London, but I guess I may have to sometime)

I know you can't get a van landrover, add seats, and make it exempt, and I also know that 12 seats on the book makes is a tiny bit more desirable to some people.


But...

I'd like to remove the rear bench seats, and center seat (ie go down to a 5 seater), but will this then reset the dvla information at mot time?

Will just be able to refit the seats if I ever need to without encountering paperwork?

And if so, how certain are you of your answer? ! : )
 
I suspect the only issues you'll have are ones you might make for yourself. If you inform nobody, then how will they know you have temporarily removed the seats.

On a side note, I have read something somewhere, that to be recognised as a 'seat', it does not need to have a cushion or seat frame. The tops of the seat boxes in the rear would still be deemed as seats with or without the seat frame. Sadly I don't have a link for this, as I read it 18-24months back while looking for info on seat belts in side facing seats. But it was probably on the .gov website somewhere.
 
Same issue here, have removed the front centre seat and the cushions from the rear. Although a CSW my V5 mentions nothing about number of seats.
 
I suspect the only issues you'll have are ones you might make for yourself. If you inform nobody, then how will they know you have temporarily removed the seats.

On a side note, I have read something somewhere, that to be recognised as a 'seat', it does not need to have a cushion or seat frame. The tops of the seat boxes in the rear would still be deemed as seats with or without the seat frame. Sadly I don't have a link for this, as I read it 18-24months back while looking for info on seat belts in side facing seats. But it was probably on the .gov website somewhere.
Did you find the answers on side facing seat belts? My 90 is 2001 and classed as a van but I wonder what I would need to do to put seats in the back and would sideways seats be OK.
 
My query was about carrying children in the back of a Land Rover, although a classic more than a newer one. But the same rules should apply.

Also worth checking if your logbook lists number of seats, many don't.


This is the reply I got from the Department for Transport.

DfT said:
For adults in the front and rear, seat belts must be used if available.


For children:-


in the front: all those up to 135cms in height (or 12 years or over, whichever comes first) must use the correct child seat/booster for their weight with no exceptions. If over 135cm or 12 years and above, they are treated for the purposes of this legislation as adults;


in the rear: where seat belts are fitted, than the same rules as for front seats apply but there are a few exceptions. One of those says that if belts are not fitted in the rear, then those 3 years and above may travel unrestrained. However, those under 3 years cannot travel – they must always use the correct baby/child seat for their weight in the front or rear.


Beware of sideways facing seats: there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted in sideways facing seats – in an impact, anyone using a belt in a sideways facing seat is at increased risk of serious injury. But if seat belts are installed then they must be used by adults.


Please note especially that where seat belts are fitted, children who are legally required to use baby/child seats/boosters cannot travel in sideways facing seats because baby/child seats/boosters legally cannot be used in sideways facing seats. This does not mean that children may use an adult belt instead in these seats – it means that they cannot travel at all in sideways facing seats where belts are fitted. That may have an effect on carrying capacity. If extra seat belts are installed in the rear in order to carry children, they should be installed on forward or rearward facing seats – baby/child seats/boosters can be used in forward and rearward facing seats.


Nothing in seat belt wearing legislation prevents the carrying of adults in seats that do not have seat belts installed – even if other seats in the rear have belts fitted. It goes without saying however those seats with seat belts should be used first.


Remember that the police can take action if, in the judgement of an officer, passengers are being carried where “the manner in which they are carried is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person”. The penalties for this offence are notably higher than for a seat belt wearing offence.


If you are likely to carry passengers without seat belts, you might consult your insurer about their attitude should there be a claim. And bear in mind that if there is an impact, the body of anyone unrestrained is likely to be a considerable risk to those seated in the front or elsewhere in the rear.


I hope this clarifies the position.





Yours sincerely,



Jeff Gilmore

Read it carefully, as it may not being saying what you think it does on first read.


Essentially if rear belts are there (side facing seats), they should be used. If they aren't, then you don't need them.

If you have no rear belts (side facing seats) then children over 3 can use the seats. If you have belts they can't until they are an adult.
 
My humble opinion would be that it is based on the vehicle spec at build, my CSW is LEZ exempt but the same running gear on an identical van sided vehicle isn't. You cant re-classify the van as a CSW by fitting seats / windows because that wasn't its original build (and the VIN number also identifies its build configuration). I would assume the seat configuration would follow a similar rationale. MOT test stations can't reclassify a vehicle specification to my knowledge (a VOSA inspection centre could but that is a different thing). Julianf, have you actually put your reg into the LEZ website (here) to check it is compliant out of curiosity?
 
Correct, an MoT centre can only assess and test. They can do nothing else. And as far as I know, the number of seats are not counted or part of an MoT. They will test the vehicle as presented.
 
Its odd that you're more likely to suffer injury on rear side facing bench seats when wearing belts, however, if they are fitted, you have to ware them!
(however, its not required that they are fitted to the vehical)

I guess that is one less thing to re-fit then!
 
When i had my 110CSW the V5 had 12 seats on it. I removed the rear bench seats and changed the number of seats on the V5. A 12 seater is more expensive to insure than a 5 seater well it was back then for me. Remember you have to tell your insurance company about any changes and im pretty sure by law you have to keep your V5 up to date
 

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