Si Click said:
They have abandoned the concept of cheap, adaptable utility vehicles, but they still want the brand identity that heritage confers on their plush SUVs.
So they have made sure that there is only a single, identifiable logo. Other than the green oval the brand identification for Range Rover, Discovery and Defender is just the words in a common font. As JLR has been bought and sold repeatedly, they will want to make sure that no one can cherry pick the brand and just buy the profitable lines. What they don't want to do is what Citroen has done in splitting the DS vehicles off as a separate brand, because if they did that with Range Rover it is quite possible that LR would be torn apart by the corporate sharks.
Click to expand...
The Defender certainly was not cheap, it was however a go anywhere vehicle that was easy to repair, it is that which JLR have abanoned. They will not get any orders for the new Pretender from the military. Here in France they had large numbers of Defenders, now being replaced by the Gelandewaggen
 
Datatek said:
The Defender certainly was not cheap, it was however a go anywhere vehicle that was easy to repair, it is that which JLR have abanoned. They will not get any orders for the new Pretender from the military. Here in France they had large numbers of Defenders, now being replaced by the Gelandewaggen
Click to expand...

Concur. I guess what I meant by cheap was that it was sufficiently inexpensive and rugged that a farmer might buy one and chuck a sheep in the back without giving his bank manager a heart attack. The new Defender.....not so much.
 
Si Click said:
Concur. I guess what I meant by cheap was that it was sufficiently inexpensive and rugged that a farmer might buy one and chuck a sheep in the back without giving his bank manager a heart attack. The new Defender.....not so much.
Click to expand...
My farmer friend now uses a Ford 4 x 4 pick up.
 
Mark Piercy said:
A what?? Aaarrrrr...... Run away.. It doesn't have the same engine as the last real defender does it?
Click to expand...
The PUMA? No it's the earlier one like the one in my Transit Tddi not the Tdci.
A friend here with a Peugeot van has just had a valve go through a piston on the Tdci engine. The cam chain has insufficient wrap around on one camshaft, it jumped, engine a write off:eek:
 
Datatek said:
My farmer friend now uses a Ford 4 x 4 pick up.
Click to expand...

I think farmers were starting to move away from LR when the Puma Defender came out. As a normal punter I decided that I would never buy a new Defender back in the 90s when they broke the £20,000 mark, which at the time seemed a ridiculous price.
 
Si Click said:
I think farmers were starting to move away from LR when the Puma Defender came out. As a normal punter I decided that I would never buy a new Defender back in the 90s when they broke the £20,000 mark, which at the time seemed a ridiculous price.
Click to expand...
The Ford was as cheap as chips second hand and has been totally reliable:D
 
Datatek said:
A better motor than the Ford lump, but when Ford owned LR it must have made sense to use a Ford engine.
Click to expand...

In truth I'm not sure they could have got the TD5 beyond EU3. So replacing it with something more modern was probably forced upon them. However, if they really wanted to preserve the Defender as a globe trotting, remote overlanding utility truck that could be easily maintained without access to a LR dealership and which could cope with the crap fuel and limited and indifferent servicing it could expect in parts of Africa, then they should have developed a dedicated engine for it rather than just pinch one out of a Transit van.
 
Problem with selling to the military is they want a big discount. Price for the old tratter was said to be £15k to £15.5k. LR could sell the same vehicle to someone else for £23k +vat. When they're in a position where they don't need the sale, they choose not to lose out on profit. We assume that's a bulk buy price.
 
Hippo said:
Problem with selling to the military is they want a big discount. Price for the old tratter was said to be £15k to £15.5k. LR could sell the same vehicle to someone else for £23k +vat. When they're in a position where they don't need the sale, they choose not to lose out on profit. We assume that's a bulk buy price.
Click to expand...

True, but the benefit of selling to the military (or any other major contract) is it ensures cash flow, gives stability to the production line for the period of manufacture and should give an assured income from the support contract. If a business needs a cash inject to fund development elsewhere it can be a real boon.

The real problem with military contracts is that there are rigid contract award protocols and for your product to even enter the bidding process it must already have been tested and meet the required civil and military standards. That is a lengthy and expensive process, with no guarantee of ever recouping the costs.
 
Datatek said:
The French and Australian military have also stopped buying.
Click to expand...

It should be said as well, the army don't need land rovers much anymore, they came to the end of their usefulness on foreign soil when IED's and explosives became more widespread, modern wars need specialist vehicles which are built for war, that takes a lot of investment as others have said, for limited return if any. Fitting armour to a defender just wont cut it anymore, and trying to design something from scratch, doesnt in my mind make much sense for land rover.
Below is the foxhound which replaced the defender, think you can see the similarities but the mine protection underneath is next level -
300px-Foxhound_Light_Protected_Patrol_Vehicle_%28LPPV%29_MOD_45155791.jpg


its definitely doable for land rover, but is it worth it.. i dont know
 
Carter4365 said:
It should be said as well, the army don't need land rovers much anymore, they came to the end of their usefulness on foreign soil when IED's and explosives became more widespread, modern wars need specialist vehicles which are built for war, that takes a lot of investment as others have said, for limited return if any. Fitting armour to a defender just wont cut it anymore, and trying to design something from scratch, doesnt in my mind make much sense for land rover.
Below is the foxhound which replaced the defender, think you can see the similarities but the mine protection underneath is next level -
300px-Foxhound_Light_Protected_Patrol_Vehicle_%28LPPV%29_MOD_45155791.jpg


its definitely doable for land rover, but is it worth it.. i dont know
Click to expand...
Land Rover Defenders were used for many things other than front line stuff, for sure the UK Coast Guard will not be replacing their Defenders with the new one.
 
Datatek said:
Land Rover Defenders were used for many things other than front line stuff, for sure the UK Coast Guard will not be replacing their Defenders with the new one.
Click to expand...
very true, i was on about the army :), but those non front line roles, why by new when its so easy to fix and gives your new recruits something to practice on..? Especially for an army on a budget.
Also do the Coastguard really count as a part of the military? ;)
 
Carter4365 said:
very true, i was on about the army :), but those non front line roles, why by new when its so easy to fix and gives your new recruits something to practice on..? Especially for an army on a budget.
Also do the Coastguard really count as a part of the military? ;)
Click to expand...
The military seem to be selling off Defenders. The Coast Guard were just another example of a customer lost.
Fire services had a few too.
 
Datatek said:
The military seem to be selling off Defenders. The Coast Guard were just another example of a customer lost.
Fire services had a few too.
Click to expand...

Think that shows a lack of interest for them, budget cuts and all that, and i think they mostly sell off the armoured ones if im not mistaken.. just cause they arent useful and why use an armoured one to guard a british RAF base, its not like they need the armour ;)
 
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