redwood said:
It's all very good knowing how something works or controlled but it's another thing trying to fix it. I have seen so many promising young lads who are wizz kids in the class room but ask them to fix something thats broken, well and thats another story
Click to expand...

u speak the truth so much with what ur saying , had plenty of apprentices with me that had the theory down pat but give them a screwdriver and they were lost

when one of them fitted a room thermostat they stripped off all the wire so every terminal was being touched by bare wire, she was actually a former teacher and basically just read , common sense wasn't there , had to let her go
 
wammers said:
Sadly most technicians are nothing like as skilled as the old mechanics were.
You only need to look at the new Range Rover for evidence of that. For some jobs on the engine and transmission the body has to be lifted off. Try that in your drive. ;);)
Click to expand...
How do you take the body off of a new Range Rover when it has monocoque body?:confused:
 
Nodge68 said:
D3/4 and old RR sport have a chassis, but not the FFRR from L322 onwards.
The engine and gearbox can be removed from D3/4 without removing the body too :)
Click to expand...

u mean to say it has engine mounts as well, blimey what will they think of next :);)

wasnt it the timing belt that needed the body removed on a dis 3 , good planning don't u think, lol

wondered why I couldn't see a chassis on my brothers evoque , dam it I just said that out loud , :D:D
 
gstuart said:
u mean to say it has engine mounts as well, blimey what will they think of next :);)

wasnt it the timing belt that needed the body removed on a dis 3 , good planning don't u think, lol

wondered why I couldn't see a chassis on my brothers evoque , dam it I just said that out loud , :D:D
Click to expand...

Hydro mounts no less. :cool:

D3/4 and RRS have the HPFP belt at the back of the engine. It's a PITA to do as you work blind with your hands down the back of the engine. But the body doesn't need to come off to do it. ;)

No chassis on an Evoque, it's a Ford EUCD platform, same as the FL2 or Ford Mondeo. Technically the FL2 uses the Ford C1 platform, but it's very similar to th EUCD.:p
 
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wammers said:
Sadly most technicians are nothing like as skilled as the old mechanics were. And as it has been said just change things until they get a result. Many will know how to change a gearbox for instance but not many could strip and repair it. Sign of the times unfortunately, power plants or at least their control systems are becoming more complexed due to emission regulations and manufacturers producing vehicles that are designed to preclude servicing other than at dealers. You only need to look at the new Range Rover for evidence of that. For some jobs on the engine and transmission the body has to be lifted off. Try that in your drive. ;);)
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Nodge68 said:
How do you take the body off of a new Range Rover when it has monocoque body?:confused:
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wammers said:
Depends which new Range Rover you are talking about. Do some more reading and expand your understanding.
Click to expand...

oh dear , are u bored this morning wammers , :p;)

in all honesty is it really necessary
 
wammers said:
You may well ask the same of your clueless mate. The hole he is digging must be well over his head by now. :D:D
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bloody hell u must be bored this morning , :D

I must admit I never take sides and go on what I find is true and accurate

spent many days researching how modern diesels run and I'm on the side of joe and nodge , because I haven't found anything to back up that a modern common rail diesel engine is throttled by fuel , but is controlled by air and the many sensors that all go back to its brain the ecu

I'm not technical enough to know the ins and outs and certainally don't wish to get into it , maybe it might be better to agree to disagree , due to the amount of evidence that I've seen in front of me , nodge and joe are correct

wouldn't it be far easier to not reply to his posts , life is just too short , far more interesting things to worry about

I'm 50 and more than happy to admit I'm wrong on things, so what who cares ,

truce what do u think , agree to disagree , problem solved, simples, :D:D

don't forget make sure u have a good weekend
 
wammers said:
Depends which new Range Rover you are talking about. Do some more reading and expand your understanding.
Click to expand...

Which RR are you referring too?
The L322 has a full steel monocoque body, no separate chassis.
The L405 (current) has a full Aluminium monocoque body, no seperate chassis.
The old RR sport uses the same chassis as the D3/4
The new sport is a monocoque without a chassis.
LR use monocoque body's to reduce weight. Th latest RR has an aluminium body to save even more weight.
Adding a heavy chassis is against the current LR policy of weight saving ;)
 
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Nodge68 said:
Hydro mounts no less. :cool:

D3/4 and RRS have the HPFP belt at the back of the engine. It's a PITA to do as you work blind with your hands down the back of the engine. But the body doesn't need to come off to do it. ;)

No chassis on an Evoque, it's a Ford EUCD platform, same as the FL2 or Ford Mondeo :p
Click to expand...

actually test drove my brothers evoque , very nice inside but not my cup of tea, didn't like the rear window either

have been trying to get the keys and take it off road, no luck yet , he's a building inspector and uses it getting on sites , some are remote and good in the winter time , does the job he wants it for, think he's now looking at the discovery 5 when it comes out , will have to get the keys for that
 
gstuart said:
bloody hell u must be bored this morning , :D

I must admit I never take sides and go on what I find is true and accurate

spent many days researching how modern diesels run and I'm on the side of joe and nodge , because I haven't found anything to back up that a modern common rail diesel engine is throttled by fuel , but is controlled by air and the many sensors that all go back to its brain the ecu

I'm not technical enough to know the ins and outs and certainally don't wish to get into it , maybe it might be better to agree to disagree , due to the amount of evidence that I've seen in front of me , nodge and joe are correct

wouldn't it be far easier to not reply to his posts , life is just too short , far more interesting things to worry about

I'm 50 and more than happy to admit I'm wrong on things, so what who cares ,

truce what do u think , agree to disagree , problem solved, simples, :D:D

don't forget make sure u have a good weekend
Click to expand...

Gary all diesels are throttled by fuel, it is fundamental to their operation. The more fuel that is injected the faster the engine turns. Air for any given manifold pressure is constant. There is ALWAYS more air in the cylinders than the engine needs to cleanly burn the fuel. At idle the air to fuel mixture ratio is well over 100 to 1 this reduces as engine speed increases but there is always more air than is needed. That is why EGR is used to restrict combustible air to just above that which is needed for clean burn. The ECU uses the reduction in airflow through the MAF sensor as EGR is applied to monitor the exhaust gas being ingested. Then modulates the EGR control valve to control the exhaust gas to air mix to maintain a combustible charge at the requested throttle/power demand. This reduces the heat created by combustion and reduces Nox production. The amount of fuel being injected to satisfy the requested throttle/power demand does not change. Only the amount of combustible air is controlled. The amount of fuel injected is subject to throttle/power demand not air flow. Although there are restrictions in the fuel map to stop fuel being shovelled in or the car would lay a smoke screen. On turbo boost fuel is controlled by the ECU subject to readings from the MAP sensor.
 
Nodge68 said:
Which RR are you referring too?
The L322 has a full steel monocoque body, no separate chassis.
The L405 (current) has a full Aluminium monocoque body, no seperate chassis.
The old RR sport uses the same chassis as the D3/4
The new sport is a monocoque without a chassis.
LR use monocoque body's to reduce weight. Th latest RR has an aluminium body to save even more weight.
Adding a heavy chassis is against the current LR policy of weight saving ;)
Click to expand...

Sport.
 
Nodge68 said:
Which RR are you referring too?
The L322 has a full steel monocoque body, no separate chassis.
The L405 (current) has a full Aluminium monocoque body, no seperate chassis.
The old RR sport uses the same chassis as the D3/4
The new sport is a monocoque without a chassis.
LR use monocoque body's to reduce weight. Th latest RR has an aluminium body to save even more weight.
Adding a heavy chassis is against the current LR policy of weight saving ;)
Click to expand...
Perhaps 'taking the body off' is old timer speak for raising the vehicle on a lft .... :D
 
wammers said:
Gary all diesels are throttled by fuel, it is fundamental to their operation. The more fuel that is injected the faster the engine turns. Air for any given manifold pressure is constant. There is ALWAYS more air in the cylinders than the engine needs to cleanly burn the fuel. At idle the air to fuel mixture ratio is well over 100 to 1 this reduces as engine speed increases but there is always more air than is needed. That is why EGR is used to restrict combustible air to just above that which is needed for clean burn. The ECU uses the reduction in airflow through the MAF sensor as EGR is applied to monitor the exhaust gas being ingested. Then modulates the EGR control valve to control the exhaust gas to air mix to maintain a combustible charge at the requested throttle/power demand. This reduces the heat created by combustion and reduces Nox production. The amount of fuel being injected to satisfy the requested throttle/power demand does not change. Only the amount of combustible air is controlled. The amount of fuel injected is subject to throttle/power demand not air flow. Although there are restrictions in the fuel map to stop fuel being shovelled in or the car would lay a smoke screen. On turbo boost fuel is controlled by the ECU subject to readings from the MAP sensor.
Click to expand...

my head hurts now, lol

let me have a good read so I can try and digest this , I know all of u are more knowledge than me so it takes a little while to sink in , but know I can ask daft questions , :D:D
 
gstuart said:
my head hurts now, lol

let me have a good read so I can try and digest this , I know all of u are more knowledge than me so it takes a little while to sink in , but know I can ask daft questions , :D:D
Click to expand...
Don't hurt your head ingesting duff information Gary.
The description of a diesel above is at least 15 years out of date.
Some elements are correct however the terminology used isn't. For starters a diesel isn't throttled, it's fueled. A diesel is a mixture controlled torque generator. Additional fuel injected above idle, doesn't necessarily increase speed. This additional fuel increases the engine's torque. Now if the increased torque output exceeds the load imposed, the engine will accelerate. If however the load and torque are in equilibrium, the engine will maintain it's speed. If the load exceeds the current torque, the engine slows down.
The thing with modern diesels is to keep burning the fuel cleanly. To do this, the driver selects a particular torque requirement, via the accelerator pedal. This then signals the ECU that more torque is needed. The ECU then adds more fuel. However the ECU has a set of rules to follow. One of those is to limit black smoke production. So the ECU monitors the mass of the air going in to intake. It then adds only enough fuel that can burn cleanly in the available air.
Gone are the days of black smoke and particulates coming out of the exhaust.
 
Nodge68 said:
Don't hurt your head ingesting duff information Gary.
The description of a diesel above is at least 15 years out of date.
Some elements are correct however the terminology used isn't. For starters a diesel isn't throttled, it's fueled. A diesel is a mixture controlled torque generator. Additional fuel injected above idle, doesn't necessarily increase speed. This additional fuel increases the engine's torque. Now if the increased torque output exceeds the load imposed, the engine will accelerate. If however the load and torque are in equilibrium, the engine will maintain it's speed. If the load exceeds the current torque, the engine slows down.
The thing with modern diesels is to keep burning the fuel cleanly. To do this, the driver selects a particular torque requirement, via the accelerator pedal. This then signals the ECU that more torque is needed. The ECU then adds more fuel. However the ECU has a set of rules to follow. One of those is to limit black smoke production. So the ECU monitors the mass of the air going in to intake. It then adds only enough fuel that can burn cleanly in the available air.
Gone are the days of black smoke and particulates coming out of the exhaust.
Click to expand...

In particular that quoted above. Diesels are throttled by fuel, the more that is injected the faster they run. Air for any given manifold pressure is constant. Only the fuelling changes to increase the engine speed and power output. What part of "There is ALWAYS more air in the cylinder than is needed for combustion", do you not understand?
 
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