thks warmers am not trying to cause any issues with anyone but just trying to learn
thks warmers am not trying to cause any issues with anyone but just trying to learn
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
There isn't one Gary, well not on a TD4 anyway. Some modern diesels do have butterfly valves, similar to a petrol engine throttle, but it performs a different function.
been abit of a doughnut as diesels run on compression , sorry being dense
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
It's not being dense if you don't know Gary
A diesel engine used to be the simplest of engines. Not anymore though.
It's not being dense if you don't know Gary
A diesel engine used to be the simplest of engines. Not anymore though.
been spending time funny enough reading of Diesel engines and how complicated they've become , into electronic egrs and also turbo engine braking , lol
my bloody head hurts now , but just enjoy learning new stuff, well the basics anyway
even being middle aged, never too old to learn
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
HI Gary, ignore the sideshow
.Nox is mainly controlled by both EGR and also by deliberate retarding of the point of commencement of injection. This deliberate measure has the unwanted effect of INCREASING fuel consumption by around 4% in the process. (and soot and HC and CO !!!!!!)
Nox is not tested for in the MOT currently, and even if ever introduced is unlikely to be applied to older vehicles.
The issue with 'nox' reduction is that the nature of the reduction in NOX ALSO causes unwanted increases in HC, CO and also SOOT and particulates which are in fact more concerning now than Oxides of Nitrogen. Hence there's is very little possibility - of any NOX test ever being brought in. - they have far more to be concerned about. The removal of egr is more likely to decrease any chance of a fail on visible smoke. Win Win...
... the MAF can do its stuff without the unwanted EGR crap adding to the core pollutants.As far as the other crappy stuff - - no not the side show - the smoke and soot that you MAY fail the MOT on - as the MASS / Quantity of air entering the engine (measured of course by the MAF) is THE MAIN influencing factor on fuel regulation - see note below - then removing the egr is actually helping in reduce the actual issues that are currently tested for. So don't worry about it mate
Enjoy.
HI Gary, ignore the sideshow
Nox is mainly controlled by both EGR and also by deliberate retarding of the point of commencement of injection. This deliberate measure has the unwanted effect of INCREASING fuel consumption by around 4% in the process. (and soot and HC and CO !!!!!!)
Nox is not tested for in the MOT currently, and even if ever introduced is unlikely to be applied to older vehicles.
The issue with 'nox' reduction is that the nature of the reduction in NOX ALSO causes unwanted increases in HC, CO and also SOOT and particulates which are in fact more concerning now than Oxides of Nitrogen. Hence there's is very little possibility - of any NOX test ever being brought in. - they have far more to be concerned about. The removal of egr is more likely to decrease any chance of a fail on visible smoke. Win Win...
As far as the other crappy stuff - - no not the side show - the smoke and soot that you MAY fail the MOT on - as the MASS / Quantity of air entering the engine (measured of course by the MAF) is THE MAIN influencing factor on fuel regulation - see note below - then removing the egr is actually helping in reduce the actual issues that are currently tested for. So don't worry about it mate
Enjoy.
View attachment 106987
thks joe, blanked my egr some 4 x years ago and sailed through every mot , was getting my head round things, lol
is amazing how much the Diesel engine has progressed from my old series that had the timing injection pump to the modern rail systems , having a far higher rate of injection pressure which I would assume that by increasing the pressure makes the atomisation improve
don't want to get over my head here, lol just nice to learn basic principles of the modern engine
also worked on oil boilers for many years so understood the air to oil ratio including the vecosity factors and how air can make things soot and produce carbons etc
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Hi Gary,been spending time funny enough reading of Diesel engines and how complicated they've become , into electronic egrs and also turbo engine braking , lol
my bloody head hurts now , but just enjoy learning new stuff, well the basics anyway
even being middle aged, never too old to learn
This is a HUGE problem among the old school alleged 'mechanics' - and I use that term loosely.. They have no or minimal computer or microprocessor experience . or indeed data comms systems experience. They also have very little electrical experience beyond changing a light bulb. Certainly 'electronics' both digital and analog is way beyond their comprehension. That is why so many small concerns are failing or simply unable to do the job. They buy a 'code reader/ and sadly think that that is it - they are good to go ! err nope. sadly not - if it say Crank Sensor - they change it at huge expense to the customer - they are numpties mostly. With the appropriate knowledge they would actually fault find on the component using electronic measurements, DSO (Storage oscilloscopes) and direct comparison of know waveforms.
It is a step too far but one has to feel sorry for them. They try their best and it is simply not enough. As you see here, some can end up feeling so lost and inadequate that they have temper tantrums and displays of absolute ignorance of any modern design.
So, fear not, you are starting with an open mind as opposed to some pig ignorant numpties that throw their dummies out if it aint got a mechanical governer on it.
You are doing fine mate.
Joe
cheers joe , always have an open mind and enjoy the understanding of how something works
I started working on steam boiler then basic cast iron boilers , a lot of basic engineers didn't even know how a basic thermocouple worked, then as boilers advanced we got into electronic circuit boards
the amount of times I went to a boiler and a customer said the previous comonay replaced the circuit board , 9 out of 10 was nothing to do with it , they always seemed to blame the circuit board , sometimes it was a pump, gas valve or even gas meter had run out of money , header tank empty of water , the list goes on
have always started with the basic principles of basic common sense and could honestly say I was never beaten by any boiler or system in finding out what was wrong with it
could never stand glorified part changers who just kept replacing parts , learning nothing , a trained monkey in other words
thks for the compliment joe, I do try, lol
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Hey
My Mercedes OM636 had a pipe from the butterfly throttle valve linked directly to the vacuum governor. - Eeee them were them days - Ran it for 10 years in our full-time Live-aboard Yacht. A Peach of an engine. So leave my 'throttle' valves alone lol
Hey
I learnt yesterday that the bmw engine think it's the m57 engine had butterfly valves in the inlet manifold and use to drop off into the engine , but the m47 engine didn't
see am learning , lol
It's also a problem for happy amateurs who don't realise how stupid some of the claims made in post 63 were. You started this shit with your stupid comment in post 66 trying to be a smart arse. Anyway carry on as you will no skin off my nose. But diesels are still throttled by fuel.
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
You are doing great mate. A good understanding of the complexities of the M47 is a good way to learn. You can always look back to tractors from the 1950's etc (or indeed my OM636 gem that I ran for 10 years). Getting the head around the intricacies of the fundamentals of electronic control are - at first - daunting., but with your background - you can relate them to a given subject - hydrodynamics and control systems - almost perfect analog.
Stick with it and just ignore the chaff.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
It's also a problem for happy amateurs who don't realise how stupid some of the claims made in post 63 were. You started this shit with your stupid comment in post 66 trying to be a smart arse. Anyway carry on as you will no skin off my nose. But diesels are still throttled by fuel.
Watch out, watch out, the fitter's about.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
It's also a problem for happy amateurs who don't realise how stupid some of the claims made in post 63 were. You started this shit with your stupid comment in post 66 trying to be a smart arse. Anyway carry on as you will no skin off my nose. But diesels are still throttled by fuel.
Technically a diesel isn't throttled at all. It makes torque, as does any engine. The the older mechanical governor diesel just sprayed in more fuel to make more torque. Things don't work like that now. Now the driver requests the torque needed and the ECU puts the correct amount of fuel to match the available measured air mass.
Thus black smoke is reduced to insignificant amounts.
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Is he epileptic ? ...... seemed more apoplectic to me..................Watch out, watch out, the fitter's about.
DFTT !!!! - Highly recommend completely ignoring it. The folks here are wise to it's delusions of adequacy. and its pram emptying.. No more shalt be said of said bitter twisted dude who when given the offer of a frontal lobotomy or a bottle in front of me - chose the latter. (Unfortunately)
Really - no more posts to it or about it.. it will sink into oblivion soon.
Don't talk stupid. You really don't have a bloody clue. .
Is he epileptic ? ...... seemed more apoplectic to me..................
DFTT !!!! - Highly recommend completely ignoring it. The folks here are wise to it's delusions of adequacy. and its pram emptying.. No more shalt be said of said bitter twisted dude who when given the offer of a frontal lobotomy or a bottle in front of me - chose the latter. (Unfortunately)
Really - no more posts to it or about it.. it will sink into oblivion soon.
View attachment 106994
Having fun are we you talk a load of crap and expect not to be pulled for it. Or are only you and your clueless mate the only ones allowed to post on this section?
Joe_H
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct Nodge mate.. It is interesting also that with modern comms systems - 'some'
- think a CAN BUS is the corporation taxi to get their 'white lightening'............................................
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct Nodge mate.. It is interesting also that with modern comms systems - 'some'
It's all so clever these days. Did you know that they can now make cider that doesn't contain apples. I guess that leaves more room for the alcohol
