holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
It’s a nice engine when you get to know it but I still can’t stop mine making a noise, hence the Frankenstein in my garage
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
Aye its a motor with character, quite easy to rebuild
What type of noise is yours producing?
This one as said above had a tapping noise and it was a 2 dead tappets..
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
Mine makes a kind of lacker lacker lacker noise for a minute when I start and then it goes quiet and then it starts to tap tap tap when it’s warm after a few more minutes. My bank 2 compression is a bit down on all cylinders compared to bank 1 which is 200 psi on all cylinders but 2 ranges from 165 to 190 from memory. It pulls fine and sounds ok in the car.
It’s hard to tell where it’s coming from even with an electronic stethoscope but more top end than bottom and sometimes I think it’s at the back or could be transmission like torque converter.
I thought rather than pull it apart further I would try and build a new one ...
It’s hard to tell where it’s coming from even with an electronic stethoscope but more top end than bottom and sometimes I think it’s at the back or could be transmission like torque converter.
I thought rather than pull it apart further I would try and build a new one ...
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
An iffy timing chain tensioner might cause that Lacker noise
As for the later noise it could be Vanos.
Would be worth rebuilding a new unit and dropping that in when the the current lump ceases to work
Ticking is usually the lifters with some crud in them. Prolonged high speed driving cleared mine. I am talking numerous 4 plus hour 100km/hr plus runs (here speed limit on some freeways is 70mph). Vanos diesel, is the Vanos and rebuilding doesn't always work.
I am not a fan of the Beisan rebuild. It is hit or miss dependent on the quality of the original vanos. I have had luck with some and complete failure on others. I rebuilt two, installed them both and Bank 2 still sounded ugly. Due to some issues with the exhaust cam bolt I had to go in after 10k miles - at that time I put in another rebuilt I had lying around and that made a difference. As I had some vanos rebuilds that were utter failures due to wear of the plastic, I learned a bit more about the units.
On your side of the pond I see some options where the vanos is opened up and ALL the seals are replaced. I like that concept. The Beisan method crushes the plastic to get more life out of an internal seal. Even though the rebuild goes well, it may not provide the best results. No way to know until the unit is in the car and everything is bolted back up.
I am not a fan of the Beisan rebuild. It is hit or miss dependent on the quality of the original vanos. I have had luck with some and complete failure on others. I rebuilt two, installed them both and Bank 2 still sounded ugly. Due to some issues with the exhaust cam bolt I had to go in after 10k miles - at that time I put in another rebuilt I had lying around and that made a difference. As I had some vanos rebuilds that were utter failures due to wear of the plastic, I learned a bit more about the units.
On your side of the pond I see some options where the vanos is opened up and ALL the seals are replaced. I like that concept. The Beisan method crushes the plastic to get more life out of an internal seal. Even though the rebuild goes well, it may not provide the best results. No way to know until the unit is in the car and everything is bolted back up.
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
The Lifters on the petrol are a very simple design, if they're ticking its usually lack of oil or in this case they'd just collapsed.
Chances are, however if the lifters are starved of oil the oil distribution plate that feeds the cam bearings/journals will also be, if the engine has been neglected enough to have sludge build up and that means a head replacement if the journals are damaged to an excessive degree.
Driving it hard will just accelerate and create unnecessary wear.
Vanos unit isn't too difficult to rebuild, if you go at it methodically and read the manuals and tutorials online.
Chances are, however if the lifters are starved of oil the oil distribution plate that feeds the cam bearings/journals will also be, if the engine has been neglected enough to have sludge build up and that means a head replacement if the journals are damaged to an excessive degree.
Driving it hard will just accelerate and create unnecessary wear.
Vanos unit isn't too difficult to rebuild, if you go at it methodically and read the manuals and tutorials online.
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
I’ve rebuilt 3 units so far and two are in the vehicle and one is spare. I did intend to rebuild another and swap them out as that was the last thing I could think of trying as both noises have a trait of vanos issues. After I rebuilt mine and clamped them up with the Beisan press I found them very tight to move. I am not a big fan of the Beisan rebuild either on the m62 and I have another two units to machine open and do the complete rebuild and thread them back together. I had CAT issues I think from starting it up and leaving it to fast idle and also driving it like grandma as I used to get the feel of excessive engine breaking, some cataclean and a few good thrashings resolved that. I also don’t have the SAI pump fitted so I wonder if the engine runs rich on start up as it’s expecting more air than it gets which the CATS wouldn’t like, it also smells funny from the exhaust on first start.
If it sounds like vanos noise and the vanos is a rebuild, (not OEM new) I would say it is the vanos. As the trucks work fine with the noise it is hard to rip things apart until you have a solid reason to do it.
When you do please take some pictures of your rebuild and post, I would be really interested to see the process.
State side on the M62 the SAI pump was deleted by the dealer, I don't think you can do that there - BUT that said I suppose you could disable it by computer to see if that is your problem.
As to the lifters - I broke a few all the way down. There is very little oil flow where the bearing and spring sit. As I didn't know better I didn't strip them down to that level after I had "metal sparkle" issues - hence I think the lifters were the cause of my tick. Ultimately they worked themselves clean - I saw no other wear issues before or after.
When you do please take some pictures of your rebuild and post, I would be really interested to see the process.
State side on the M62 the SAI pump was deleted by the dealer, I don't think you can do that there - BUT that said I suppose you could disable it by computer to see if that is your problem.
As to the lifters - I broke a few all the way down. There is very little oil flow where the bearing and spring sit. As I didn't know better I didn't strip them down to that level after I had "metal sparkle" issues - hence I think the lifters were the cause of my tick. Ultimately they worked themselves clean - I saw no other wear issues before or after.
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
I do suspect vanos so I may try that again before I finish my rebuild. I have two used units I could throw in that haven’t been modified.
What was causing your metal sparkle ?
What was causing your metal sparkle ?
I bought the truck with a known timing issue, I just didn't know how bad it was. In the end I learned the prior owner ran the RR until the chain guides wore so bad it was grinding down aluminum. At the same time the plastic fragments clogged the pick up and starved the engine. Block was totally toasted. Metal sparkle was everywhere.
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
ok, I had a bit of what i thought was metal in my oil and had a panic but i think the cam cover i bought had come from a car with failed guides and i also put in a centre piece form the oil filter housing which may have been contaminated, either that or my noise is more serious....
i may swap out the vanos units again but will wait for warmer weather
i may swap out the vanos units again but will wait for warmer weather
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
Well this engine will be coming apart again!!!!!
Dead Vanos this time..
I'll see if i can get some pics in the near future when i'm next at the workshop, its just been a jam..
The end of the cam where the Vanos sits has been quite severely damaged the "piston ring" under there has also disintegrated..
a new cam is on the way..
Kind of kicking myself for not checking the cams or removing the Vanos units and properly inspecting them..
I reckon i could do this with my eyes closed now..
Done it so many times!!
All apart awaiting new cams..
Dead Vanos this time..
I'll see if i can get some pics in the near future when i'm next at the workshop, its just been a jam..
The end of the cam where the Vanos sits has been quite severely damaged the "piston ring" under there has also disintegrated..
a new cam is on the way..
Kind of kicking myself for not checking the cams or removing the Vanos units and properly inspecting them..
I reckon i could do this with my eyes closed now..
Done it so many times!!
All apart awaiting new cams..
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
Yes couldn't think of the name at the time.
It was and still is making a light clacking sound as above i found 2 dead tappets but further examination i found a wrecked vanos unit in need of a rebuild and a cam that is scrap.
I'll post pics as soon as..
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
You should check the bored of your oil distribution units and camshaft oil rings on the ends of the cam shafts or is that what you were talking about ?
The oil distribution units get scored in the bores- was that nearly a Larry Grayson catch phrase alongside shut that door , did he have a look at the scores on the doors or was that brucey bonus?
The oil distribution units get scored in the bores- was that nearly a Larry Grayson catch phrase alongside shut that door , did he have a look at the scores on the doors or was that brucey bonus?
tomcat59alan
Well-Known Member
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
Thanks..
I'm in college at the moment which has a dedicated workshop in my off hours after lessons i tend to hang around there and help the lecturers rebuild the cars the apprentices have ripped apart, I also rebuild engines ass you see above..
When i'm not at college i'm at a small Garage helping to train Apprentices..
After this year I'm planning on doing an apprenticeship at a franchise dealer, Land Rover preferred!
I was hesitant to refit old bearings, but the parts were supplied to me so i asked no questions!!
I just do the job.
loltomcat59alan
Well-Known Member
Nice to see we still have enthusiastic young blood in the industry.Thanks..
I'm in college at the moment which has a dedicated workshop in my off hours after lessons i tend to hang around there and help the lecturers rebuild the cars the apprentices have ripped apart, I also rebuild engines ass you see above..
When i'm not at college i'm at a small Garage helping to train Apprentices..
After this year I'm planning on doing an apprenticeship at a franchise dealer, Land Rover preferred!
I was hesitant to refit old bearings, but the parts were supplied to me so i asked no questions!!
I just do the job.
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
People of my age tend to like to waste away in front of computer screens..
My old lecturers say the mechanic is a dying breed as the old ones retire..
TBH a nice oily workshop is my happy place
